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  1. #11
    Growing old Disgracefully
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    I have about 4 children that died in Childbirth/Stillbirth in my family I have the birth cert. for them all but no burial details as they where not buried in the Cemetry, as not being Christend they couldnot be buried in Concecrated Ground

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandyhall View Post
    I have about 4 children that died in Childbirth/Stillbirth in my family I have the birth cert. for them all but no burial details as they where not buried in the Cemetry, as not being Christend they couldnot be buried in Concecrated Ground
    interesting - thx for that, makes sense. So my guy was probably baptised but record either misplaced as per Peter's response, or he may have been baptised in his mother's parish.

    Thank you to everyone - great response - feeling more confident now as to what might be going on here

  3. #13
    Reputation beyond repute
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    Kent
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    So my guy was probably baptised but record either misplaced as per Peter's response, or he may have been baptised in his mother's parish.
    Or he may have been baptized in other than the established church.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey View Post
    Or he may have been baptized in other than the established church.
    his siblings seem to have been though. What would the alternatives have been around 1695?

  5. #15

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    If he was eldest, the parents could have married after his birth. He could have been baptised elsewhere (previous parish, parish of one set of parents, etc)

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesley Robertson View Post
    If he was eldest, the parents could have married after his birth. He could have been baptised elsewhere (previous parish, parish of one set of parents, etc)
    Thx Lesley - I will do that.

  7. #17
    Knowledgeable and helpful
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    Jan 2010
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    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonDMD View Post
    Hi, I have a burial record for a Jeffrey Poole in Llansaintffraid-ym-Mechain parish in 1695. It says "Jeffrey son of Jeffrey..."
    Can I assume that he was a child because the father is named?

    If that is the case, I am stumped trying to find his baptism record (having been through births line by line from 1654 to 1707 to begin with).

    If he died in childbirth would he not have been baptised - hence no record?

    Many thanks

    Simon

    First under common law (I.E law created by “case law” or decisions of courts) all parishioners have a right to be buried in the churchyard or burial ground of the parish in which they reside. Anyone who dies in a parish is also entitled to be buried there irrespective of the time they lived there.

    Second it is very easy to show that still-born babies were buried in the churchyard and even in the body of the church itself by browsing parish burial registers.
    (Here are just two examples - From the register of St Helen, Bishopgate, London 1691 August 23
    "A Still borne Child of Mr Veveons, in the South Isle the therd pew from the Quire"

    St Mildred Bread St 1683/4 February 9
    "An abortive male son of Owen & Mary Buckingham, bur. undr ye 3d Pew on ye North side. A.")

    There are hundreds more showing not only burials in churchyards but burials in the church itself.

    Regarding baptisms it is more common for baptisms of children to show their parents names than baptisms of adults, in a similar way it is more common for females to be noted as wife or even widow of their husband than the males to be noted as husband of widow(er) of his wife.
    The main exception is if the family are rich or own land and then the deceased is sometimes noted for heritage purposes.

    It may be a surprise to many that birth & death registrations were legally required from 1644.
    In 1644 an ordinance was passed that
    "... and it is further ordained, by the authority aforesaid, that there shall be provided, at the charge of every parish or chappelry in this realm of England and dominion of Wales a fair register-book of velim be kept by the minister and other officers of the church; and that the names of all children baptized, and of their parents, and the time of their birth and baptizing, shall be written and set down by the ministers therein ; and also the names of all persons married there and the time of their marriage ; and also the names of all persons buried in that parish, and the time of their death and burial ; and that said book shall be showed, by such as keep the same, to all persons reasonably desiring to search for the birth, baptizing, marriage, or burial of any person therein registered, and to take a copy or procure a certificate thereof."

    In 1695 (7th & 8th William III., cap. 35) a similar enactment was made and also distinct registers were to be kept of children born in the parish and not christened all parents were required to give notice of a birth of a child within 5 days of the birth. A fine of 40 shillings was imposed on parents who omitted to give notice within the five days and a similar penalty was payable by the vicar.

    Though it is fair to say that these laws, like speeding and littering laws, were frequently ignored.

    There has been some good advice in this thread I would also add it is always best to browse the registers rather than using the search option as even the best transcribers make mistakes.
    Cheers
    Guy
    As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Etchells View Post
    First under common law (I.E law created by “case law” or decisions of courts) all parishioners have a right to be buried in the churchyard or burial ground of the parish in which they reside. Anyone who dies in a parish is also entitled to be buried there irrespective of the time they lived there.

    Second it is very easy to show that still-born babies were buried in the churchyard and even in the body of the church itself by browsing parish burial registers.
    (Here are just two examples - From the register of St Helen, Bishopgate, London 1691 August 23
    "A Still borne Child of Mr Veveons, in the South Isle the therd pew from the Quire"

    St Mildred Bread St 1683/4 February 9
    "An abortive male son of Owen & Mary Buckingham, bur. undr ye 3d Pew on ye North side. A.")

    There are hundreds more showing not only burials in churchyards but burials in the church itself.

    Regarding baptisms it is more common for baptisms of children to show their parents names than baptisms of adults, in a similar way it is more common for females to be noted as wife or even widow of their husband than the males to be noted as husband of widow(er) of his wife.
    The main exception is if the family are rich or own land and then the deceased is sometimes noted for heritage purposes.

    It may be a surprise to many that birth & death registrations were legally required from 1644.
    In 1644 an ordinance was passed that
    "... and it is further ordained, by the authority aforesaid, that there shall be provided, at the charge of every parish or chappelry in this realm of England and dominion of Wales a fair register-book of velim be kept by the minister and other officers of the church; and that the names of all children baptized, and of their parents, and the time of their birth and baptizing, shall be written and set down by the ministers therein ; and also the names of all persons married there and the time of their marriage ; and also the names of all persons buried in that parish, and the time of their death and burial ; and that said book shall be showed, by such as keep the same, to all persons reasonably desiring to search for the birth, baptizing, marriage, or burial of any person therein registered, and to take a copy or procure a certificate thereof."

    In 1695 (7th & 8th William III., cap. 35) a similar enactment was made and also distinct registers were to be kept of children born in the parish and not christened all parents were required to give notice of a birth of a child within 5 days of the birth. A fine of 40 shillings was imposed on parents who omitted to give notice within the five days and a similar penalty was payable by the vicar.

    Though it is fair to say that these laws, like speeding and littering laws, were frequently ignored.

    There has been some good advice in this thread I would also add it is always best to browse the registers rather than using the search option as even the best transcribers make mistakes.
    Cheers
    Guy
    Hi Guy - thank you taking the time to send this splendid background.

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