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  1. #1
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    Default Richard Herbert brickwall

    I have been searching my grandfather's relations. His name was Austin Herbert born 1872 and died 1951. I have got to the 1600's and have got a brick wall after William Herbert born about 1690 in Kimcote, Leicestershire. He married Mary Tanser on 27 April 1718 in Ashby Magna, Leicestershire. I think William's father was Richard Herbert who was born about 1665 and married someone called Mary.

    I would really like to go further if possible as I believe the Herbert's came over with William the Conqueror.

    Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Could you tell us why you think his parents were Richard & Mary, and why you think he was born in Kimcote (I can't see any baptism there for him).

    A Mary Herbert of Leicester left a will in 1702, and very quickly scrolling through it I can see sons named Thomas & Richard (who also had a son named Thomas). Other grandchildren are William, Thomas, Sarah & Elizabeth, who were all Thomas's children. Other family members are also named, but I'm not sure that this is your family.

    Kimcote is very close to both the Warwickshire & Northamptonshire border, so have you ruled out baptisms there? There was also a William Herbert baptised in Bisbrooke, Rutland in 1698, s/o William & Ann.

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    Following on from my last post, there is a will in 1707 of a Richard Herbert of Monks Kirby, Warwickshire. This mentions a brother Thomas, whose son was named Richard, and also a brother John, plus some other family members. None are named William.

    'Your' William doesn't name any of his children Richard, which I would expect in this time period if that was his father's name, so I'm really not convinced he's part of the same family, unless you have some specific evidence?

  4. #4
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    Thank you for looking at Richard Herbert. I searched on William Herbert on Family Search and found the following:

    'When William Herbert was born about 1690 in Kimcote, Leicestershire, his father, Richard Herbert, was 25 and his mother was Mary. He married Mary Tanser on 27 April 1718 in Ashby Magna, Leicestershire. They were parents of at least 11 sons and 7 daughters. He died on 19 June 1763 in Walton, Leicestershire, at the age of 73 and was buried in Kimcote, Leicestershire.' Children were listed as: David, William, Joseph, Richard born 21/3/1722 (died at birth), Frances, Henry, Elizabeth, John, Francis, Mary, Thomas, Barbara, David, Ann and Benjamin.

    When I searched on Richard Herbert I found 3 records all from Kimcote:
    Richard Herbert burial 9/3/1739
    Richard Herbert's father was William and his mother was Mary. Burial in Kimcote 21/3/1722
    Richard Herbert burial 3/9/1792

    I could not find anything for Richard's parents searching on William Herbert born about 1665 and Mary.

    Not sure where to go from here.

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    The familysearch record is just someone else's conclusion without any factual evidence, although having seen the burial (but no baptism) for Richard son of William & Mary in 1722 then it does make it more likely that William's father was also named Richard.

    The earliest baptisms I can see are these:
    Elizabeth daughter of Rich: & Mary Herbert bapt: Oct: 2nd [1699]
    Ann daughter of Rich: & Mary Herbert (Knaptoft Parish) bapt Decem ye 8th [1701]

    The Richard buried 1739 was also said to be from Knaptoft Parish.

    There are various Richard Herbert marriages to women called Mary in Warwickshire (probably too early) and Northamptonshire:

    16 Nov 1787, West Haddon, Parish of Naseby, Northamptonshire - Richard Herbert & Mary Underwood, by Licence
    31 Jan 1785, Moulton, Northamptonshire - Richard Herbert & Mary Lucy, bachelor & spinster, by Licence

    Either of these are possible, although Naseby is closest.

    I have a lot of CDs for Leicester bought from the Family History Society, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything in them of much use. There is a Settlement Certificate issued in 1748 for Richard Harbert (sic) mentioning Lutterworth & Walton in Knaptoft, but no Examination, which would have given more details about his family.

  6. #6
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    Thank you for your further research. The Settlement Certificate you found sounds interesting but if it was issued in 1748 and Richard's burial was in 1739 it would appear not be the same Richard.

    I searched on Kimcote and Knaptoft churches. Apparently, Knaptoft village was mostly deserted by the 17th centaury. The St Nicholas Church is now roofless. There are some gravestones which, when lockdown ends, might be worth going to see as we only live a few miles away. Also, a visit to Kimcote All Saints churchyard.

    The dates for Moulton Richard and Mary and Naseby would appear to be after his burial in 1739.

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    I've had a look at this. I can see your Herbert family in Barwell back until 1748 when a William Herbert married Catherine Ludgrove. (Family Search and FMP).There are no Herbert baptisms in Barwell before this date.
    FS are suggesting that this William is the William BP 1718 Ashby Magna, but, as jomot1 already said, without evidence.
    William could of course be the William from Ashby Magna, linking your family to Kimcote if FS's conclusions are correct.

    However looking at the Kimcote family.
    William Herbert residence Kimcote married Mary Tansy at Ashby Magna 1718. A William Herbert BP 1718 Ashby Magna prob to this couple. Subsequent children bp Kimcote.
    There is a marriage at Kimcote 1741 William Herbert residence Knaptoft and Hannah Carter . Children of this marriage bp Shearsby. Knaptoft and Shearsby are near to Kimcote.
    I think it is possible that the William who married Hannah is the William bp 1718 (whose grandfather may be Richard).

    Whatever is correct there are two William Herberts, one marrying 1748(your family) and another marrying 1741.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pam123 View Post
    Thank you for your further research. The Settlement Certificate you found sounds interesting but if it was issued in 1748 and Richard's burial was in 1739 it would appear not be the same Richard.
    I agree, but the reference to Knaptoft suggest he may have been from the same family. He is probably the Richard Herbert who married Sarah Shepard in Lutterworth, 23 Feb 1747.

    Interestingly, this Richard named his first two children Mary & William. His & Sarah's last child, baptised at Kimcote in 1761, was named Benjamin, which is another 'family' name. They may be the Richard & Sarah Herbert buried Kimcote in 1792 & 1800.

    We know that a Richard s/o William & Mary Herbert was buried in Kimcote in 1722, so perhaps there was another Richard born after this? There's no baptism for the one buried, so its possible that other baptisms are missing too.

    ADDED: Sorry, Im probably not making myself very clear. I think its possible that William & Mary may have had a second son named Richard, and if this was his settlement certificate then any settlement examination might have given some information about his own parents birthplace, parents etc. Some can be very detailed, others less so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pam123 View Post
    They were parents of at least 11 sons and 7 daughters. He died on 19 June 1763 in Walton, Leicestershire, at the age of 73 and was buried in Kimcote, Leicestershire.' Children were listed as: David, William, Joseph, Richard born 21/3/1722 (died at birth), Frances, Henry, Elizabeth, John, Francis, Mary, Thomas, Barbara, David, Ann and Benjamin.
    I presume that you've seen his will (1763, William Herbert, Bricklayer of Walton, Knaptoft), which names only four children?

    Daughter Sarah, wife of John Renolds
    Sons Thomas, David & Benjamin

    This would seem to rule out the Richard I mentioned from being his son, but it seems odd for someone who had 18 children to name only 4 of them in his will.

    There is another will for Wm Herbert 1771, Mason of Shearsby, which mentions the following:
    Wife Hannah
    Children Hannah, Frances, Elizabeth, Francis, Ann & Carter
    Grandson John Herbert

    I think I'm more confused than when I started!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jomot1 View Post

    There is another will for Wm Herbert 1771, Mason of Shearsby, which mentions the following:
    Wife Hannah
    Children Hannah, Frances, Elizabeth, Francis, Ann & Carter
    Grandson John Herbert
    I think this will be the will of the William Herbert who married Hannah Carter at Kimcote in 1741. His residence Knaptoft. I wondered if he night be the son of William Herbert and Mary Tanser.

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