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  1. #1
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    Default Royal Engineer John Scales of Yorkshire

    John Scales appears in 1851 census as member of the Royal Engineers. Would like to confirm his parents but there is conflicting info as to birth date and location. Any suggestions where I might find a copy of the application form he would have filled out when he joined? Thanks for reading.

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    You dont provide any information as to where he is in 1851, or his age in the census, so its difficult for us to find the man you're referring to.

    However, unless he served long enough to receive a pension or was discharged through illness/injury then you are unlikely to find any attestation record.

    EDIT: The only one I can find is in the Royal Sappers & Miners, in Woolwich in 1851, born c1829, Spofforth - is this him?

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    I'm assuming it is him, as in 1861 he appears to be a sapper, No. 2618, with the Columbian Detachment Royal Engineers in British Columbia.

    What is the conflicting information you have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jomot1 View Post
    You dont provide any information as to where he is in 1851, or his age in the census, so its difficult for us to find the man you're referring to.

    However, unless he served long enough to receive a pension or was discharged through illness/injury then you are unlikely to find any attestation record.

    EDIT: The only one I can find is in the Royal Sappers & Miners, in Woolwich in 1851, born c1829, Spofforth - is this him?
    This is correct and he is in British Columbia in 1961. He retired to New Westminster, British Columbia, and I can only assume he was given a pension.

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    He would usually have to serve 21 years to receive a pension. If he attested below age, then those years would not count towards pension.

    You mentioned conflicting information, but haven't expanded.

    Do you have a copy of his marriage certificate to Sarah? I'm assuming he married Sarah Exell 28 Oct 1852? Transcription has his father's name as John, but it would be helpful to know his father's occupation.

  6. #6
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Jomot1 View Post
    I'm assuming it is him, as in 1861 he appears to be a sapper, No. 2618, with the Columbian Detachment Royal Engineers in British Columbia.

    What is the conflicting information you have?
    A report on Saper John Scales on the Royal Engineers site shows birthdate January 23, 1829, 1841 census suggests 1829, 1851 census suggests 1829, 1881 census suggests 1826 while 1891 census suggests 1822. The 1901 census (Canada) shows birth June 23, 1822. I had found what I believe to be his family in the 1841 census living in Pickering (about 45 miles NE of Spofforth where 1851 census shows him born ) where he shows as 12, born 1829. I have been unable to find any record of birth or baptism for John.
    I was transferred to Sechelt ( ferry ride north of Vancouver, BC ) in 1970 where the town historian asked me if I was related to John Scales who was considered the founder of Sechelt. At the time I was not doing family history and had no knowledge of any relationship. It seems he was given 2 large blocks of real estate instead of wages from RE. I have since copied all the docs in the Sechelt Museum but they do not have any information as to birth. As my family ( Scales ) appears to have roots in Yorkshire I would now like to prove if there is a relationship. Perhaps I can prove he is family and was never paid for the land he sold and could reclaim it on behalf of the family Thanks for looking into this.

  7. #7

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    FindMyPast Marriage(transcript only)
    Place - Holy Trinity, Old Brompton, Kent
    Date - 28 Oct 1852
    Sarah Erill, full age, spinster, father Henry, occpn. carrier
    John Seales, full age, bachelor,Private RI Sapr & ?, father not named, father's occupation - mason
    Witnesses - John Bramley, Sarah Shipman

    The surnames of bride and groom are as transcribed by FMP ie. not a typo by yours truly.

    The father's occupation "mason" fits the 1841 Pickering Census with a 12 yr old John Scales and also ties in with John Jnrs' occupation on the 1851 Census at Woolwich - "stonecutter".

    Baptism (image)
    Parish Church Pickering
    John Scales, bap 20 Apr 1828, abode Pickering, parents John and Mary, father's occpn. stonemason.
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

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    Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "a report on the Royal Engineers site" - which website is this please?

    I also suspected the family in Pickering, particularly as John Sr was a stonemason and John Jr was described as a stonecutter & private on the 1851 census, but you really should order the 1852 marriage certificate to be sure.

    The family in Pickering is headed by John & Mary, so this looks like John Jr's baptism, at Pickering:

    20 Apr 1828 John son of John & Mary Scales, Pickering, Stone Mason.

    But, there was also a John Scales born Pickering c1828 living in Whitby 1851-1871 with wife Jane (nee Cass).

    I can only repeat that you really need to see that marriage certificate before you can conclude that the Pickering family is correct.

    EDIT: I didnt see the above post before I started typing - apologies for duplicate information.

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    I have a copy of that marriage certificate and his father is a mason.

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    He married Sarah Excell.

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