How do you find siblings (if they exist)?

[wimsey]

if I make the assumptions that Florence Holmes was 21 in 1915 and born in Lincolnshire there is a birth registered in Glanford Brigg, Lincolnshire, 4th quarter 1894. Florence Holmes, no mother's maiden name.

there is a 1901 census for St Swithin parish, Lincoln, piece 3064; folio 77; page 43

George Holmes - 28 - born Lincolnshire
Helen Holmes - 28 - born Lincolnshire
Florence Holmes - 7 - born Lincolnshire
George Holmes - 4 - born Lincolnshire
Samuel Holmes - 2 - born Leicestershire
Beatrice Holmes - 9 months - born Leicestershire

Beatrice Holmes has mother's maiden name Fox
a George Holmes married Helen Fox, 1896, Lincoln

but if Florence was born out of wedlock would we expect her birth to be registered as Florence Fox ?

I have probably made far too many assumptions here

[MissingLincs]

I can see some of Florence's children on the 1939 register, have you found them?

I have already found the 1939 register with George, Aileen, Beryl & Gordon (my dad)and also the 1939 register showing my nana & grandad (Florence & Gordon)on census day was in Ross & Whitchurch together. My dad was age 5 at the time so I'm guessing it was a holiday or maybe something to do with his work to have left 4 children at home.
It would be a nice surprise to find a marriage certificate with them having 3 children within 5 years but that was never the impression I was given.

[MissingLincs]

if I make the assumptions that Florence Holmes was 21 in 1915 and born in Lincolnshire there is a birth registered in Glanford Brigg, Lincolnshire, 4th quarter 1894. Florence Holmes, no mother's maiden name.

there is a 1901 census for St Swithin parish, Lincoln, piece 3064; folio 77; page 43

I had seen the 1901 census from a hint from someone else's tree and I know to check the facts and records which is why I needed to find a birth certificate but with her death record Florence Rudall (as she had married James Rudall in 1942) shows her birth date as 21st May 1893 although the 1939 register says 21st April 1896. I can see on the 1939 register that Florence's surname has been changed over the years with Grundy and Rudall hand written in but Chandler is clearly written in first. Maybe they 'checked in' on census day as a 'married couple' or maybe they really were married?

[wimsey]

if I understand you, the name Rudall would have been added after the 1942 marriage, not at the time of the 1939 register

as I understand it the 1939 register was used as the basis of early NHS records and the NHS was created in 1948 so it was important to know what someone's surname was at that time (if that makes sense).

we now seem to have a wide choice as to where and when Florence Holmes was born.

[Pam Downes]

Well after spending what seems like a week trying to find people in the 1939 Register, I am now beginning to sort out everyone.

Vessey Robinson Grundy married Florence Holmes in Lincoln in 1915.
See post #5 for further details.

FreeBMD has the following birth registrations for Grundy with Holmes as mother's maiden name, all in Grimsby registration district. (Additional info re second names from the GRO website birth index.)

George V(essey), June quarter 1916
James S(ydney), September quarter 1917
Florence M(ay), September quarter 1918
Beatrice M(aud), June quarter 1921
Charles K(enneth), December quarter 1923
Betty, September quarter 1925

FreeBMD also has the following birth registrations for Grundy with Holmes as mother's maiden name. However these births are also registered with the surname of Chandler, mother's maiden name Holmes. Which is how the connection of Florence Grundy nee Holmes to Gordon Edwin Chandler (born 1908) is made.
Aileen E(lizabeth), September quarter 1928, Nottingham registration district
Beryl D(oreen), December quarter 1929, Nottingham registration district
Gordon E(dwin), March quarter 1934, Grimsby registration district

If you haven't got copy of your father's birth certificate, then you need to get one. You should order it using the Chandler surname.
Order from either
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp
or the local registrar's office.
It appears that some of the Grimsby registrations are held by Lincoln registration services, and some by North East Lincs council. I would suspect that Gordon junior's in 1934 is held by Lincolnshire, but a quick phone call to them will confirm it.
https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/birt...ny-certificate
If you need North East Lincs
https://www.nelincs.gov.uk/births-ma...h-certificate/

It's quite strange that although the birth registraions on FreeBMD show both Chandler and Grundy as surnames, the GRO website birth index shows the registrations only as Chandler.

In the 1939 Register, Aileen (currently indexed as Eileen by FMP but I have sent in a correction), Beryl, and George are named as Chandler, living with George V Grundy in Grimsby.

Gordon E Chandler born 1908 is listed with Florence Chandler born 1896 in Ross and Whitchurch. Probably there in connection with Gordon's job as a lorry driver. Florence has surname amendments of Grundy (lower case) and Rudall, written all in capitals, both in red ink.

Vessey Grundy born 1889 is living in Grimsby with Florence Mary born 1918, and three redacted entries, presumably the three children born after Florence.

Pam

[wimsey]

thanks Pam for being far more thorough, helpful and detailed than me. I was considering listing all those children born 1916-25 then decided some may still be alive (albeit very old).

[Pam Downes]

thanks Pam for being far more thorough, helpful and detailed than me. I was considering listing all those children born 1916-25 then decided some may still be alive (albeit very old).

You can list people born a hundred years ago without any problems.
As the details for the others are 'in the public domain' and I gave only those details, then that is OK.
But, yes, it can be a bit of a minefield, and sometimes it's best to be cautious.
The Chandler children are all deceased because their entries on the 1939 Register are open.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

Death registrations
George Vessey Grundy, date of birth 25 April 1916, death registered September quarter 1981, Grimsby registration district.

James Sydney - zilch.

Florence May married James Smith June quarter 1942,then married Edward S. Cumblidge March quarter 1961.
Date of birth 1 August 1918, death registration September quarter 1977. All in Grimsby registration district.

Beatrice Maud married Benjamin Burnham, March quarter 1942, Grimsby registration district.
Date of birth 23 May 1921, death registration March quarter 1993, Darlington registration district.

Charles Kenneth Grundy, date of birth 29 September 1923, death registered September quarter 2003, North East Lincolsnhire registration district.

Betty - nothing conclusive, though she may have married Dennis Harvey in 1944 in Grimsby registration district. Possible death registration as Betty Harvey, born 1925, September quarter 2018 Leicestershire registration district.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

I DID SOME EARLIER WORK ON VESSEY ROBINSON GRUNDY AND DON'T WANT TO LOSE IT, SO WILL POST WHAT I'VE FOUND BUT WILL HAVE TO FINISH IT OFF LATER (probably even Sunday evening). Got to go out shortly and have commitments for rest of the day, and most of tomorrow. Will post a note when this has been amended.

Let's start with (and concentrate on) Vessey Robinson Grundy. Distinctive name, and therefore should be fairly easy to find records for.
Birth registration June quarter 1889, Louth registration district.

1891 census, living in Covenham St Mary. Census reference RG12/2611 folio 13 page 5
James Grundy, 29, Grocer & Blacksmith, born Yarburgh
Annie M, wife, 27,grocer, Alford,
Vessey R, son, 2, Covenham St Mary
Sydney, son, 1 month, Covenham St Mary
Frances A Watson, sister, 14, (born Dexthorpe)

According to the GRO birth index
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp
Vessey's mother's maiden name was Robinson, and Sydney's mother's maiden name was Watson, but I can't find a marriage for a James Grundy to either somebody Robinson or somebody Watson.

Baptism register for Covenham St Mary has an entry for Vessey Robinson, son of James and Annie Grundy, father's occupation blacksmith, on 20/28 April 1889.
Baptism of Sidney{I]sic)[/I], son of James and Annie, father's occupation blacksmith, at Covenham St Mary, on 29 March 1891.
Other Grundy baptisms at Covenham St Mary with James and Annie as parents are Charles William 1892, Elsie May/Mary 1894, and Fred James 1899.

Interestingly, the GRO birth index says that the mother's maiden name for Charles and Fred was Watson, but for Elsie was Robinson.

[helachau]

Birth Registration
Florence Gertrude Hewson, Mar Qtr 1892, Louth, 7a 550 - mother's maiden name Dawson

Lincolnshire Chronicle, 6 Oct 1899
Marriages
At Yarborough, on the 28th ult, Vessey Grundy to Alice Hewson, both of Yarborough

Could your Nan have been a Hewson? I haven't done any follow up checks.