Ephraim Keeling 3rd Dragoon Gds

[Vossy]

I've hit a brickwall with my great grandmother's brother Ephraim Keeling born 1848 Bermondsey. He appears aged 12 on the 1861 census for Goat Street, Bermondsey.
I believe that the same Ephraim is shown on the 1871 census as 23, a soldier. Pte 977 3rd ( Prince of Wales) Dragoon Guards attached to 9th (Queens Royal) Lancers Military Police at General staff North Camp Farnborough. I can't find any other reference to him after this. I believe that he may have died prior to 1881 but this is unproven at the moment. I need to ascertain that Private Keeling is my relative. Does anyone have any suggestions please.

[helachau]

The details you have posted re. Ephraim appear to come from the 1871 British Army, World Wide Index?
There's also a Census entry on FMP for -
Ephraim Keeling, unm, age 22, Soldier Priv. 3rd Dr. Guards, born London Middlesex.
Address - General Staff and Departments, North Camp, Farnborough.

[Vossy]

The details you have posted re. Ephraim appear to come from the 1871 British Army, World Wide Index?
There's also a Census entry on FMP for -
Ephraim Keeling, unm, age 22, Soldier Priv. 3rd Dr. Guards, born London Middlesex.
Address - General Staff and Departments, North Camp, Farnborough.

Thank you. I have both those documents but I wanted to prove that the soldier was my Ephrain Keeling. I am at a loss to find his service record for example. I've trawled FMP with no luck.

[christanel]

Hi Vossy
Like you I can't find any records that can be directly connected to your Ephriam. There are a couple of marriages in 1873 and 1885 but without purchasing the certificates who know if they are your man.
This is The National Archives guide to searching for army records. I haven't tried to find your man but it may help determine what, if any records are available. Even so, from memory, I don't think personal identifying info was a priority.
Christina

[barbara lee]

You might try checking the GRO birth registrations to see how many Ephraim Keelings there were of about that age. There can't have been many, it's an unusual combination of names, and he might have been unique, thus solving your problem.
B

[Vossy]

Hi Vossy
Like you I can't find any records that can be directly connected to your Ephriam. There are a couple of marriages in 1873 and 1885 but without purchasing the certificates who know if they are your man.
This is The National Archives guide to searching for army records. I haven't tried to find your man but it may help determine what, if any records are available. Even so, from memory, I don't think personal identifying info was a priority.
Christina

Thank you Christina

I agree. I think that they just wanted men to sign on and, as long as they could walk and make their mark they were in. I have yet to see a date of birth on the records. Thank you for your help and I will keep on trying the National Archives. I haven't found their search facility particularly friendly so far. Practice makes perfect. Thank you again

Vossy

[Vossy]

Barbara,, Thank you. That's what I thought. With a name like that it should be easy. Unfortunately there are loads of them. I am going to have to fork out for some certificates and keep my fingers crossed.
Vossy

[Pam Downes]

Barbara,, Thank you. That's what I thought. With a name like that it should be easy. Unfortunately there are loads of them. I am going to have to fork out for some certificates and keep my fingers crossed.
Vossy

Vossy, I'm not sure where you're looking, but FreeBMD has only 4 birth registrations for Ephraim Keeling between 1840 and 1855, and I can assure you that four in fifteen years is not loads.

So, let's do a little re-cap.

You said in your first post that Ephraim is your great grandmother's brother, he was born 1848 Bermondsey, and he appears aged 12 on the 1861 census for Goat Street, Bermondsey.
Presumably that statement is based on the fact that your great-grandmother is also living in Goat Street in 1861 with the same parents as Ephraim.
[For anyone looking for the family in 1861, the census reference is RG9/317 folio 145 page 56. Though as far as I can see you can only find Ephraim on Ancestry. Goodness knows what FMP have done with their indexing for that page and a few others but it is complete rubbish. Searching for Ephraim, born 1849 (because he's age 12), brings up no results either. Needless to say, I will be writing to FMP!]

Meanwhile, Goat Street is not in Bermondsey. It's not a million miles away, being in Horsleydown, but it's not Bermondsey. I'm not nit-picking. I'm trying to teach you that you have to be accurate in what you say and record. If you record things inaccurately people will struggle to find your records. You should always write 'what you see' in an image. So, for example, if Ephraim was spelt 'Efraim' and shown as being 10 years old in the 1851 census that's what you record, though obviously with a note saying that 'this record is incorrect'. In fact, that does sort-of happen in the 1851 census because his father is recorded as Joseph, whereas he's James in 1841, 1861, and on his marriage certificate.
The marriage parish register entry is on Ancestry, in the London, England, Church of England marriages and banns, 1754-1932 dataset. Parish of St George the Martyr, Southwark in 1839. James Keeling and Ann Whitham.
Using the GRO's own website
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp
you can check for Keeling children with Whitham as the mother's maiden name and then confirm them to the children listed in the census. (I haven't checked for deaths for any childen who may have died young.)
For the early births and deaths you can order a black-and-whte PDF copy of the certificate for £7 - four quid cheaper than a fancy coloured one.

1841 census reference: HO107/1048/4 folio 45 page 6
1851 census reference: HO107/1561 folio 90 page 44

Back to those other birth registrations between 1840 and 1855.
The only other one to have a London registration area is the one in 1843, and in 1871 he's aged 29, married, a waterman (following after his father), census reference RG10/625 folio 118 page 52. So obviously not the one who's a soldier.

The one registered in Louth in 1840 I can find in the 1851 census, still in Louth, but not in 1861 or 1871.

Pam

[Vossy]

Pam

Thank you. I have all the census details you refer to as well as details of all James and Ann Keelings children a couple of whom died in infancy. James was a painter ( house painter) and is earlier referred to as a glazier and painter. He was also made a freeman of the city of London in 1838 following in his father Thomas's footsteps. The entry for Ephraim the waterman is not my man.
I think you will find that Horsleydown was part of Bermondsey until the whole borough became Southwark. I was born in Bermondsey and lived here until my mid twenties and know the area very well.
I am trying to prove or disprove whether the soldier Ephraim is my relative,
Thany you for your help. If I solve the problem I will let you know. Keep up the good work.
REgards Vossy

[Pam Downes]

Pam

Thank you. I have all the census details you refer to as well as details of all James and Ann Keelings children a couple of whom died in infancy. James was a painter ( house painter) and is earlier referred to as a glazier and painter. He was also made a freeman of the city of London in 1838 following in his father Thomas's footsteps. The entry for Ephraim the waterman is not my man.
I think you will find that Horsleydown was part of Bermondsey until the whole borough became Southwark. I was born in Bermondsey and lived here until my mid twenties and know the area very well.
I am trying to prove or disprove whether the soldier Ephraim is my relative,
Thany you for your help. If I solve the problem I will let you know. Keep up the good work.
REgards Vossy

Well, I thought I'd made a pretty strong case for that being the case - only one born in that time frame, London birthplace, etc, so perhaps you'd like to tell me why you still seem so doubtful.
Yes, there is still lack of concrete, absolute, undeniable, proof but on the evidence I'd certainly be adding him to my tree, albeit it with a cautionary note.

Pam