William Griffiths born Wales circa 1830?

[helachau]

Plenty of birth registrations with given name Llewelyn - 40,000 plus since 1837, split roughly 50:50 between Wales:England (inc. my grandfather and twin brother).

William attested 1866, aged 14 (born c. 1852). In 1851 the 54th, 66th and 79th regts. were in Quebec. In 1852 it was the 54th and 66th. I need to check a few more years but I think we can rule out the birth registration, 1852, 63rd regt.

There were other regiments in Canada at that time - I've focused on Quebec.

[Jomot1]

I think the 1850 baptism for William George Griffiths that I posted is worth considering further – right place, right name, father a soldier who died in battle when WGG was young (so may not remember his name, potentially explaining why he said William at his first marriage and Robert at his second).

The National Army Museum has a diary for Bandmaster Frederick Oliver of the 20th Regiment, which amongst other things describes the sea journey to the Crimea. The army lists show he too was in Montreal in 1851 and Limerick in 1841, so he would have served alongside George Kempster Griffiths throughout that period. He was a Sgt and George was a Colour Sgt.

As well as the two births, there is a possible marriage in Winchester in 1859 of a Mary Ann Griffiths to either Thomas Hobby or George William Taylor. If this is Mary Ann nee Jacques and her new husband was also a soldier, then that may explain why William George was in Malta in 1866.

[Anne2407]

Hi all, not sure how to progress with all of the above. its hard to figure how WG would have two different names for his dad on his marriage certs. I would have assumed his mother was probably still alive to remind him. maybe not. Do you know Jomot1 if the marriage cert of Mary Anne Griffiths in 1859 Winchester indicated if she was a widow or did it give her maiden name? Can anyone advise me whether the forces war records are easy to navigate for a beginner of if it would be of any further help to me in tracking down additional info? thanks for all your help to me in trying to conquer the WG Griffith wall which seems to be getting bigger!

[Pam Downes]

Hi all, not sure how to progress with all of the above. its hard to figure how WG would have two different names for his dad on his marriage certs. I would have assumed his mother was probably still alive to remind him. maybe not. Do you know Jomot1 if the marriage cert of Mary Anne Griffiths in 1859 Winchester indicated if she was a widow or did it give her maiden name? Can anyone advise me whether the forces war records are easy to navigate for a beginner of if it would be of any further help to me in tracking down additional info? thanks for all your help to me in trying to conquer the WG Griffith wall which seems to be getting bigger!

Read the first paragraph of Jomot1's post #22.

Some people didn't know their father's names. It could be that either or both are wrong. Maybe the first one was correct but when he married the second time he'd forgotten so just said what he thought it was. Or vice versa. I had problems with 2x great granny's family till by chance I saw a newspaper report which proved she was illegitimate so when she said Thomas on her marriage certificate she was referring to her grandfather and not to the Thomas who was her uncle, and whom I'd assumed was her father.

Even if his mother was still alive she might not have been in the vestry when the vicar asked for the details of the fathers and their occupations.

Pam

[Jomot1]

Hi all, not sure how to progress with all of the above. its hard to figure how WG would have two different names for his dad on his marriage certs. I would have assumed his mother was probably still alive to remind him. maybe not. Do you know Jomot1 if the marriage cert of Mary Anne Griffiths in 1859 Winchester indicated if she was a widow or did it give her maiden name?

The marriage certificate doesn't appear to be online and I can't see anything in the newspapers, so you would have to buy the certificate. However, if she DID marry George William Taylor then there is a possible (but unconfirmed) death for her in the GRO Army Chaplains Death Indices on FmP - meaning the GRO will hold a copy. The only references are Mary Ann Taylor, Malta, 1868-69, Page 965.

As Pam has said, it isn't particularly unusual to give wrong or conflicting information about father's on marriage certificates - my GG Grandfather said his father was John on his first marriage certificate and William on his second.

[Jomot1]

There is a baptism in Malta 11 Aug 1866, Ellen Helena Taylor d/o George & Mary Ann Taylor, Private, 1st Battalion 60th Rifles.

Ellen Helena married James Pickett in 1885 in Grenville, Quebec, and her parents were named as George Taylor of Grenville and his wife Mary Ann Griffiths. George & Mary Ann appear to have been witnesses.

There was a George Taylor, No 404, who was with the 60th Rifles in Malta March 1866 to Sept 1867, and then on to Canada , where he was discharged in Montreal in 1869. According to his army record he was born c1836 in Chilworth, Guildford, Surrey.

There is a Canadian headstone at St Matthews, Grenville, for a Mary Ann Jakes (sic) Taylor wife of George W Taylor, who died died 11 Mar 1907 aged 76 yrs.

https://canadianheadstones.ca/search...l?psid=1048277

The "Jakes" is a strong clue to her being Mary Ann Jacques.

ADDED: Its still not conclusive, but it places Mary Ann Jacques/Griffiths/Taylor in Malta at the time that William George Griffiths enlisted at Malta - into the same regiment as his step-father, George William Taylor.

[Jomot1]

George, Mary Ann & family in the 1881-1901 census in Grenville:

1881 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MVVM-RHD
1891 - https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/...3_148187-00009
1901 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KHPH-NMJ

[Jomot1]

Here's the one that absolutely seals the deal I think

In 1861 George Taylor 25, married & a soldier with the Royal Rifles was at the Western Heights & Citadel, Hougham, Dover.

Listed separately to each other but also at the Western Heights & Citadel was the following:
Mary Ann Taylor, 26, born America, wife of soldier,
William Geo Griffiths aged 10 born America, child of soldier … followed by
Henry Griffiths aged 1 born Winchester, child of soldier (Harry Taylor on the Canadian census)

[Anne2407]

hi Jomot 1. in reference to the second baptism of Alfred Joseph Griffiths s/o George and Mary Ann Griffiths (mmn Jacques) at Winchester George kempstin Griffiths having died in 1854 can't have been the father.

[Jomot1]

hi Jomot 1. in reference to the second baptism of Alfred Joseph Griffiths s/o George and Mary Ann Griffiths (mmn Jacques) at Winchester George kempstin Griffiths having died in 1854 can't have been the father.

I know. You'd have to see the birth certificate to see exactly what she claimed about the father - perhaps his regiment was included, and if its the 60th Royal Rifles then we can perhaps assume its really George Taylor rather than George Griffiths. She wouldn't be the first to fib on a certificate!