Samuel John Williams 2nd great grandfather

[helachau]

Jane and her sister Mary Ann appeared very close - living together in '51 and living in the same street in '41 - Spencer Street (Census ref for Mary Ann in '41 is HO107 697 44 34). Also, the 9yr old Jane Ann Johnson on the '51 Census was baptised 3 Jul 1842 - abode Spencer Street. Checked mother's maiden name via GRO - Baker. Father is Samuel Johnson, occupation "Captain's cook". On the '41 Census he is a "Ship's cook".
I hoped that the closeness of the sister's might result in Jane appearing as a witness to Mary's marriage. With Mary and Samuel in '41 is a 6yr old Mary - so I checked for a marriage pre 1836/37 - but drew a blank. However, did find the marriage of Samuel Johnson, cook and Mary Ann Baker on 8th July 1839. Mary Ann's father is Thomas Baker, carpenter. Sadly, Jane is not a witness to provide a clue as to what surname she was going by at the time..

[Jomot1]

The William Samuel Williams in Australia, who was described as a mariner when he married Agnes there, is later described as a cook. Could he too have been a ships cook?

[Happy Jackie]

As as start you could try scanning it (front & back) in colour & submitting it to somewhere like this: https://www.facebook.com/groups/337276269784836/

I seem to remember that even B&W photos should be scanned using colour settings, but I could be wrong on that. Instructions should be on the site.

Or before that try a little DIY dating using this: https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~vict...mily/index.htm

Thanks. I tried both and am still waiting for the Facebook site to approve my membership. I also sent an email to the man on the other site as I couldn't seem to get very far on that one. My sister had the original and on the back it says it was taken at Commercial School of Photography; G.A. Baker; 28 Jubilee St., COM??E/CXAL Road
She was given this my father and he had written on the back "Grandfather Williams" which would have been Samuel John Williams II born 1843.

[Happy Jackie]

=helachau; However, did find the marriage of Samuel Johnson, cook and Mary Ann Baker on 8th July 1839. Mary Ann's father is Thomas Baker, carpenter. Sadly, Jane is not a witness to provide a clue as to what surname she was going by at the time..

Thanks. Since Jane Baker's father was John Baker and Mary Anne's father was Thomas, why would they say they were "sisters" on the 1851 census? I found Jane's christening record which gave her father and mother. On the 1861 census, Mary Johnson is also a widow.

[Happy Jackie]

The William Samuel Williams in Australia, who was described as a mariner when he married Agnes there, is later described as a cook. Could he too have been a ships cook?

Sorry I'm still not buying the name William Samuel Williams There is a Samuel John Williams III, son of Samuel John Williams II but not one William Samuel Williams.

[Jomot1]

GA Baker, Photographer will be Gabriel A Baker, who was a photographer at Jubilee Street in the 1871-1891 census. So if I've understood this correctly, you are relying on a photograph of Samuel Jr, as 'proof' that his father was Japanese?

[Jomot1]

Sorry I'm still not buying the name William Samuel Williams There is a Samuel John Williams III, son of Samuel John Williams II but not one William Samuel Williams.

So all that proves is that someone who never knew his father named his son after HIMSELF. He didn't call him Samuel John Willams III - YOU called him that.

I'm dipping out now Jackie, because you are honestly the most closed minded 'researcher' I've ever come across. Good luck with the next 30 years... you'll need it.

[Pam Downes]

GA Baker, Photographer will be Gabriel A Baker, who was a photographer at Jubilee Street in the 1871-1891 census. So if I've understood this correctly, you are relying on a photograph of Samuel Jr, as 'proof' that his father was Japanese?

Someone found Gabriel much quicker than I did , though I originally wasted time trying to search the commercial directories till I had the inspiration to search the census using the address search.
Gabriel married in 1862 when his given occupation was hairdresser. So he became a photographer sometime between 1862 and 1871. So the photograph has to be later than 1862 and therefore cannot be of a person who was supposedly dead before 1851.
Similarly, it could have been taken any time up to at least 1891, possibly as late as March 1901, as all we know is that Gabriel wasn't living at 28 Jubilee Street on census night in 1901 as that address is listed as uninhabited.

Jubilee Street is off the Commercial Road in east London.

[Happy Jackie]

. So the photograph has to be later than 1862 and therefore cannot be of a person who was supposedly dead before 1851.Similarly, it could have been taken any time up to at least 1891, possibly as late as March 1901, as all we know is that Gabriel wasn't living at 28 Jubilee Street on census night in 1901 as that address is listed as uninhabited.

Thanks. That was exactly my take but I wanted to make sure. On the back of the picture, My father had written, "My grandfather" which would make him born in 1843, Samuel John Williams II. I received that same reply from photo dating and they agreed the photo looked "Asian".