Isaac Isaacs (A different one)

[Lneckstein]

Hi Friends,

I saw a thread on Isaac Isaacs. I have a different Isaac Isaacs that I need help finding more info on. I would also appreciate any info you might find on his wife, Judith, including a maiden name.


This is the 1841 census from the UK where they are listed
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQB7-Y2T

Then I am pretty sure Isaac Isaacs dies
See https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...0/isaac-isaacs

And Judith moves the New York
See https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:27PS-GQS
And https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDXK-78H

The last time I find her (I think) is in the 1860 census, living with her daughter under the name "Julia Isaacs"
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCQ5-QG1

Thanks so much!

[Pam Downes]

It's very tempting to just post a link but people can only see the information in the links you've given if they have a FamilySearch account and are signed in. Not everyone uses FS, so I would advise you to type out the details (boring and laborious as it may be!).

You've also given the link to the 1860 US census entry for Julia as the supposed link to the 1841 census.

Pam
(who just happens to be signed to FS, otherwise I wouldn't have looked because I am not a regular user of the site)

[Lneckstein]

Apologies. I didn't realize. Thanks for the heads up!

England and Wales Census, 1841

Name: Isaac Isaac
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1841
Event Place: Falmouth, Cornwall, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original): Falmouth, Cornwall, England
County: Cornwall
Parish: Falmouth
Registration District: Falmouth Union
Residence Note: Ludgate Hill
Gender: Male
Age: 55
Age (Original): 55
Birth Year (Estimated): 1782-1786
Page Number: 2
Registration Number: HO107
Piece/Folio: 154/5
Affiliate Record Type: Household
Affiliate Image Identifier: GBC/1841/0154/0138&parentid=GBC/1841/0004472901
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Isaac Isaac Male 55
Judith Isaac Female 45 Cornwall
Betza Isaac Female 20 Cornwall
Harriot Isaac Female 15 Cornwall
Abraham Isaac Male 13 Cornwall
Amelia Isaac Female 12 Cornwall
Sarah Isaac Female 9 Cornwall
Rebecca Moses Female 35 Cornwall

--
New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1891

Name:
Judith Isacs
•
Event Type: Immigration
Event Date: 1849
•
Event Place: New York City, New York, United States
•
Age: 54
Nationality: G B
Birth Year (Estimated): 1795
Birthplace: G B
•
Ship Name: Waterloo

--
United States Famine Irish Passenger Index, 1846-1851

Name: Judith Isacs
Event Type: Immigration
Event Date: 29 Mar 1849
Event Place: New York City, New York, New York, United States
Gender: Female
Age: 54
Birthplace: Great Britain
Occupation: Immigrant
Ship Name: WATERLOO
Birth Year (Estimated): 1795
Departure Port: LIVERPOOL
Literacy: Unknown
Destination Place: USA
Transit or Travel Compartment: Steerage
Affiliate Manifest ID: 3454
Affiliate ARC Identifier: 569666

--
United States Census, 1860

Name: Julia Isaacs
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1860
•
Event Place: New York County, New York, United States
•
Event Place (Original): New York, New York, 1st Division 18th Ward New York City
Gender: Female
Age: 69
Race: White
Birth Year (Estimated): 1791
Birthplace: England
•

It's very tempting to just post a link but people can only see the information in the links you've given if they have a FamilySearch account and are signed in. Not everyone uses FS, so I would advise you to type out the details (boring and laborious as it may be!).

You've also given the link to the 1860 US census entry for Julia as the supposed link to the 1841 census.

Pam
(who just happens to be signed to FS, otherwise I wouldn't have looked because I am not a regular user of the site)

[Pam Downes]

Honestly, I am not picking on you because I've nothing better to do with my time, but our T&Cs specifically state

A contribution must not infringe any copyright, database right or trade mark of any other person.

In other words, you may not copy-and-paste transcriptions from other sites.
https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...conditions.php

There is also the danger that the transcription is wrong. If I had a pound for every mistranscription I've found over the years I would have quite a few quid in the bank.
You should always transcribe things yourself, and if what you see differs from the transcription say 'I think the name is James but Ancestry have transcribed it as Thomas'

Quite often not all the details are transcribed, and by transcribing things yourself you can add in those missing details - one of which may be a vital clue in trying to find an answer to your query. For instance, in the 1841 census, Isaac's birthplace isn't blank, it says 'n' for not born in county. His not-transcribed occupation of merchant might also prove relevant.

Does that gravestone in Ireland have an age at death on it? If not, it's a bit of leap to assume that the Isaac in Cornwall in 1841 is the one who's buried in Ireland in 1847.
I'm also a little suspicious about the names of Isaac's children listed on the Find-a-Grave site. The only name that appears in that list and the 1841 census is Amelia, but with birth years four years apart.

Pam

[phillip]

I have just started to research this thread and noted on the JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial registry that the Tombstone of Isaac Isaacs who died in 1847 and buried Dublin says he was 'late of Falmouth' and father Abraham.
The 1841 Census shows him not born in county and the others listed as born in county.
There are several Ancestry.Co public family trees one of which has Judith Moses as the wife of Isaacs.
It is possible they were married in Falmouth and I will look further at my various records and others.

[phillip]

The UK City Directories show:
1830 Falmouth High Street Isaac ISAAC clothes dealer; 1839 Isaac ISAACS Clothes salesman Falmouth High Street; 1844 Isaac ISAAC shell dealer Falmouth High Street.

The interchanging of Isaac and Isaacs for last name is not uncommon and exists in my own lines.Similarly, the differences between trades such as clothes dealer and then shell dealer is also common. For example in the many hundreds of records I have researched you will see that Anglo Jewish individuals would have several trades over time depending on business dealings, bankrupcy etc

The Jewish Chronicle Archives 18 March 1842 recorded 14 Jewish families in Falmouth and on 23 July 1847 the Hebrew Congregation was 9 heads of household and 50 individuals. The congregation had dwindled significantly by 1913.

I have looked again at the family tree of Alexander Moses aka Zender Moses of Falmouth to see if the Judith Moses referred to as a wife of Isaac Isaacs aka Isaac Isaac was his daughter. Alexander Moses did have a daughter called Judith c 1754-1843 but she had married 1 Henry Joseph 2 Lazarus Lawrence and could not be the same individual as per the 1841 Census. Similarly, Alexander Moses had a granddaughter called Judith but she was not married to an Isaacs/Isaac.

Given the small Falmouth Jewish population circa 1840s further research is needed to identify Isaac Isaacs (Isaac) and his wife Judith.

[phillip]

See JCR-UK Irish Jewish Roots online data base which contains numbers of Isaacs/Isaac individual names including some dob for the Dublin Hebrew Congregation
See Irish Jewish Genealogical Society data base on family names including links to family trees following contact with the society.

Noted also on the 1841 census Rebecca Moses with the Isaacs - she is born in county and a Female Servant. This term FS can be a generic term and can include relatives.

There are several Ancestry.Co public family trees which contain more family members of the 1841 Isaacs. Numbers of these individuals are recorded as settling in the USA. Whether or not they are actual family members requires further research.

[phillip]

Small notes- see Royal Cornwall Gazette May 31,1817 a reference to Houses for lease in Falmouth and a Mr Isaac Isaacs living in one of the dwelling houses.

From the Jewish Chronicle but many years later so may or may not have any relevance to the Isaac aka Isaacs. Mrs JOHN M ISAAC condolences for her late lamented sister- Falmouth August 30,1870. Research would be needed to confirm if this family had any connections to the Isaac/Judith line.

[phillip]

The following newspaper article confirms Harriott Isaacs and her marriage to Morris Werner.
In this city on the 10th inst.after a short but severe illness, Harriott, wife of Morris Werner and daughter of Judith and Isaac ISAACS late of Falmouth,England aged 24 years. Dublin and Cornish papers please copy.
The Brooklyn Daily Eagle New York 15 July 1852.

The reference to Dublin and Cornish newspapers to copy the notice indicates family connections existing in Dublin and Cornwall.

[phillip]

See First American Jewish Families (online Stern Collection Pg41) CROMELIEN family tree- Amelia Cromelien nee STEINFELD nee ISAACS.
She was married 1 Simon Steinfeld 1825-1876 2 James Monroe Cromelien 1835-1900

Death Record
Amelia Cromelien 3 May 1896 Manhattan New York age 63 b England Married b 1833 Burial 5 May 1896 Cypress Hills New York
Parents Isaac and Judith ISAACS
Address 70 East 86th Cemetery Washington Brooklyn

Naturalisation 1864 New York

Phoebe UNGER Death 12 July 1886 Manhattan New York age 61 Maritial status unknown Parents Isaac and Judith ISAACS buried Beth Olom Cemetery -her burial record gives est age 58 b 13 July 1828 ( see Findagrave for photos of tombstone and inscriptions)
Phoebe married Herman Unger 1820-1899