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  1. #11
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    It definitely says on the 1911 census that Sarah Ann was born in Bridgnorth Salop. So, if she was born on the 28th December 1870 in Bridgnorth Salop, could it be that the parents of Ephraim are not her parents? Have I and everyone else on ancestry mismatched her?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbertlouise View Post
    I have just found Sarah Ann on the 1939 census in Nascot place, Watford. She is widowed. Nascot Place is where my nan lived. It gives Sarah Ann's birth date as 28th December 1870.

    I wondered if perhaps I had the wrong Thomas Langford and Eliza Walford? Perhaps Sarah Ann was in a different house with parents of the same name...but I haven't found others so I do't think that can be it.
    The 1939 Register birthdate would fit with a birth registration in March quarter 1871.

    As regards your second paragraph, I doubt if you have the wrong family. Address and Thomas' occupation in the census match the details in the baptism register. In the census the family are living in St Leonard's parish, and Sarah was baptised in St Leonard's church.

    However, we do recommend that you always buy the BMD certificates of your direct ancestors. So if anyone asks what you want for Christmas - problem solved.
    Only ever buy certificates either direct from the GRO
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp
    or the local registrar's office which in this case is
    https://www.shropshire.gov.uk/births...y-certificate/

    Black-and-white PDF copy from GRO is £7.00 (though you can still order a posh red one for £11) or £11 plus £1 'bronze service' from Shropshire. Local registrar's supply only the 'official' red birth certificates.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbertlouise View Post
    It definitely says on the 1911 census that Sarah Ann was born in Bridgnorth Salop. So, if she was born on the 28th December 1870 in Bridgnorth Salop, could it be that the parents of Ephraim are not her parents? Have I and everyone else on ancestry mismatched her?
    Watch my lips.
    In my opinion, Ephram/Ephraim is a figment of the census enumerator's imagination, and he should have written Sarah/Sarah Ann. For reasons which will never be known he wrote the name as Ephram, and therefore wrote son.

    Other people may disagree with my theory, but they need to say why before they will convince me that my theory is other than correct.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  4. #14
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    I have managed to find her marriage in the Shropshire marriages Sep 30th 1895. It says Sarah Ann was living at Ackleton at the time of marriage and her fathers name is Thomas Langford and he is a Coachmam on here, not a labourer. Sarah Ann Langford was married to John Allen Turner in the Parish Church of Worfield. So her father is definitely Thomas Langford.

  5. #15
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    Thank you

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbertlouise View Post
    I have managed to find her marriage in the Shropshire marriages Sep 30th 1895. It says Sarah Ann was living at Ackleton at the time of marriage and her fathers name is Thomas Langford and he is a Coachmam on here, not a labourer. Sarah Ann Langford was married to John Allen Turner in the Parish Church of Worfield. So her father is definitely Thomas Langford.
    See 1881 census RG11/2631 folio 123 page 33
    and 1891 census.RG12/2095 folio 88 page 8

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  7. #17

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    If you look at the census entry it reads "Ephran" - although transcribed as "Ephraim" on FMP.
    "Ephran is aged 3 months and the Census was taken 2 April - so you are looking for a DoB at the start of the year. A 28 Dec 1870 birth would quite reasonably be registered 1st Quarter 1871.
    The GRO entry for Sarah Ann shows mother's maiden name Walford. The birth certificate would provide date of birth to compare with "3mths" on the Census.

    I know what "theory" my money is on.

    Forgot to add - isn't the "Abode" given in the baptismal register the 1871 address which wd. be interesting to compare with birth cert?
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    See 1881 census RG11/2631 folio 123 page 33
    and 1891 census.RG12/2095 folio 88 page 8

    Pam
    Thank you, yes, I had both of these saved. But no Ephraim still.
    And no Sarah Ann on the second one. Took me a while to work out your search methods on ancestry lol cos I usually search by name and place. Sarah Ann, to my knowledge is a servant in the 1891 census.

    Still baffling about Ephraim. If he is not a twin, where has he come from?
    Ive found something else baffling while on the hunt for Ephraim.

    Sarah Ann Langford's husband is John Allen Turner, yet on their marriage (parish) doc it says his father is Charles Richard Allen. John's mother's name, according to my research is Elizabeth Allen. I thought his father was Charles Turner...if it's Allen, where has the Turner come from?? Back to the drawing board...

    Thank you for your help

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbertlouise View Post
    Sarah Ann Langford's husband is John Allen Turner, yet on their marriage (parish) doc it says his father is Charles Richard Allen. John's mother's name, according to my research is Elizabeth Allen. I thought his father was Charles Turner...if it's Allen, where has the Turner come from?? Back to the drawing board...
    If you'd like to tell us what you've found for John, and where, we'll have a look for you to see if we can either find the answer or else pick holes in your findings. Census references such as those I quoted for the 1881 and 1891 census are best, otherwise you will need to tell us exactly how John's details have been transcribed in the census on a particular site (e.g. FMP might say John was 73, Ancestry might have him transcribed as 78), and where he was living.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    If you'd like to tell us what you've found for John, and where, we'll have a look for you to see if we can either find the answer or else pick holes in your findings. Census references such as those I quoted for the 1881 and 1891 census are best, otherwise you will need to tell us exactly how John's details have been transcribed in the census on a particular site (e.g. FMP might say John was 73, Ancestry might have him transcribed as 78), and where he was living.

    Pam
    Thank you...

    Well, John Allen Turner and Sarah Ann Langford are my Nan Sarah Lilian Turner's parents. The family home was 12 Nascot Place, Watford. Although Nan and most of her siblings were born in Banbury, Oxford. Nan's date of birth, 21 Sep 1906.
    John was born 1871 in Cradley, Worcester. He was a Butcher. Is buried in Old Vicarage Rd, Watford with Sarah Ann.
    The family with John can be seen on the 1911 England Census for Watford, Hertfordshire, Schedule number 389.
    John and Sarah Ann were married while John was living in Banbury and Sarah was living in Ackleton, Shropshire. On the 30th Sept 1895. Marriage no. 17 in Worfield Parish Church. Both of their dads were coachmen. The witnesses were Thomas Langford who I believe to be Sarah's father and Maria Langford who I believe is Sarah's sister. The curate was Gerard Hitchings.
    John's father's name at time of wedding is recorded as Charles Richard Allen.

    John Allen's parents (As previously thought to be) are:
    Elizabeth Allen, born abt 1832 Lindridge, Worcestershire. Died October 1910 Banbury, Oxford.
    Charles Turner, born abt 1836 Stamford Bishop, Herefordshire. Died January 1878 Banbury.
    The family can be seen without John on the 1871 census for Cradley, Herefordshire, RG10/2710 page 3 schedule no.68. where Charles is a Coachman.
    John is on the 1881 England census with his mum and family after his dad died. living in 28 Church Lane, Banbury, Oxfordshire. Schedule no 25. RG11/1527 pages 22 and 23.

    I believe Charles' dad is Richard Turner and his mum is Hannah Fudger.
    Elizabeth's parents are John Allen and Amelia Bayley.

    I hope this helps?

    Thank you very much

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