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  1. #1
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    Default John Valentine Fields

    Hi,

    I am looking for any information i can find on John Valentine Fields, born 1838, In wells Next The Sea in Norfolk.
    There is no record of his baptism in Wells, but i believe his mother to be a Mary Fields who was born in Wighton Norfolk in 1798. I believe he also has a half brother called Miles Fields who was born in Wells in 1822.
    I have been told that John Valentine Fields was the illegitimate son of a squire and the squire's family paid for his Carpentry apprenticeship.
    I think i have found a census record of him for 1841 where he is living with Miles and his grandmother Sarah, there is no other record until his marriage in 1859 in Great Yarmouth and from there on it is quite straight forward.
    Any help would be great.

  2. #2

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    Welcome to the British Genealogy Forum, Wheelsy. I have no doubt that help will arrive, we have quite a few enthusiastic members.

    In case you are wondering, I have deleted your post in the Norfolk Forum. We do not allow duplicate searches in different forums - it’s frustrating for people who have spent time searching for info on one copy and then discover that someone else has already posted the same info on the duplicate!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelsy View Post
    Hi,

    I am looking for any information i can find on John Valentine Fields, born 1838, In wells Next The Sea in Norfolk.
    There is no record of his baptism in Wells, but i believe his mother to be a Mary Fields who was born in Wighton Norfolk in 1798. I believe he also has a half brother called Miles Fields who was born in Wells in 1822.
    I have been told that John Valentine Fields was the illegitimate son of a squire and the squire's family paid for his Carpentry apprenticeship.
    I think i have found a census record of him for 1841 where he is living with Miles and his grandmother Sarah, there is no other record until his marriage in 1859 in Great Yarmouth and from there on it is quite straight forward.
    Any help would be great.
    Go stand in the corner, and do not leave until you've recited 'I must not make assumptions' a million times.
    Until you find further records about John's early life you can not assume that Sarah is his grandmother and Miles a brother/half-brother. Yes, the percentage chance of those relationships being correct is quite high, but there is always a very big 'but' lurking.
    FMP have baptisms for most Norfolk parishes, and there seems to be no John Field(s) baptism 1833-1859. However, you do need to check which parishes have their registers for that period either lost, or still held by the parish. There is also the possibility that his baptism was recorded in the Bishop's Transcripts register but not the parish register, so check with Norfolk Archives if BTs exist for Wells for that period.

    It looks as if Sarah died in 1844, aged 67, so she's no help in the 1851 census.

    Miles Fields married Mary Ann Bullock in 1846 at St Giles Norwich. He's a cabinet maker (same occupation as in the 1841 census), and gives his father's name as Sergeant Fields, occupation servant. This sort-of agrees with Miles' baptism in Wells, where his name is given as Miles Sergeant or Surgeon Fields.(Obviously the vicar wasn't sure which name was said, so decided to cover his bases!)

    Finally found that Miles in the 1851 census, name written as Shield(s) on the census form. Census reference HO107/1816 folio 312 page 5.
    In 1861 he's become Miles Cooper (though currently indexed on FMP as Carper, but I've sent an error notice). Census reference RG9/1218 folio 86 page 36. Definitely him as his birthplace and occupation are consistent. In the 1871 and 1881 census, he calls himself Miles Cooper Field(s).

    While I was tryig to find Miles-born-1822 in the censuses I found a Miles, aged 42, born Wighton, living in Docking with wife Elizabeth and daughter Susan. So adding two and three and making five, it's possible that Miles is the brother of Mary, the possible mother of John. Miles 'senior' was baptised in Wighton, 30 December 1804, the son of Valentine and Sarah.

    Mary, daughter of Valentine and Sarah Field was baptised 8 March 1798 in Wighton.

    I would 99% say that John is the grandson of Sarah.
    I wouldn't like to go as far as saying he is even 50% the illegitimate son of Mary until I'd check out the other children of Valentine and Sarah.

    John possibly became a carpenter because of Miles-born-1822.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  4. #4
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    There is an image of this on Familysearch.

    Valentine Field. 58 yrs,married man, Burial 23 Jun 1837 Wells, Norfolk, England

    There’s also a marraige of Sarah Fields in 1847, father Valentine Fields,witness Miles Fields.

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    My thoughts - could be wrong!
    I am not sure about Mary being his mother.
    Children of Sarah and Valentine
    Mary1798, John 1799, Ann 1801, Sarah 1803, Miles 1804,:Elizabeth 1806 died 1808.
    Other baptisms which may be relevant
    William Field 1815 Wighton , mother Mary
    Sarah Ann 1830 Wells, mother Ann

    I think Ann Field may have married William Pull in Wells on 1831
    In 1841 they can be found with George and Mary Cooper and family in Norwich. George is an upholsterer.
    There is a marriage in Norwich in 1828 George Cooper and Mary Fields. Son Alfred Valentine Cooper was born in 1831. I think the Mary could be your Mary.
    The Sarah you found on 1841 does look likely to be a grandmother or other relative of your John, but mother does not seem to be Ann or Mary. Leaves Sarah, John or Miles as parent unless there is another child.

  6. #6
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    Hi,

    No problem with having my post deleted in another forum, just a mistake from somebody new posting on here.

    Thank you all for your help and ideas, it certainly gives me something else new to research on John Valentine. It is just putting together the pieces of where he sits in my research that is causing me issues.
    If anybody finds anything else or has any other ideas i would love to hear them as i would like to progress my family tree further.

    Many thanks
    Last edited by Wheelsy; 04-09-2020 at 11:55 AM. Reason: more detail

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by grisel View Post
    My thoughts - could be wrong!
    I am not sure about Mary being his mother.
    Children of Sarah and Valentine
    Mary1798, John 1799, Ann 1801, Sarah 1803, Miles 1804,:Elizabeth 1806 died 1808.
    Other baptisms which may be relevant
    William Field 1815 Wighton , mother Mary
    Sarah Ann 1830 Wells, mother Ann

    I think Ann Field may have married William Pull in Wells on 1831
    In 1841 they can be found with George and Mary Cooper and family in Norwich. George is an upholsterer.
    There is a marriage in Norwich in 1828 George Cooper and Mary Fields. Son Alfred Valentine Cooper was born in 1831. I think the Mary could be your Mary.
    The Sarah you found on 1841 does look likely to be a grandmother or other relative of your John, but mother does not seem to be Ann or Mary. Leaves Sarah, John or Miles as parent unless there is another child.
    Jumps up and down because clever Grisel has just found the connection for Miles-born-1822 suddenly calling himself Miles COOPER in the 1861 census, and Miles Cooper Fields in 1871 and 1881 censuses. (I haven't checked later ones, nor for a death for him.)

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  8. #8
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    Hi Pam,

    Yes that does make a lot of sense. That sounds like a good lead to follow up on.

  9. #9
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    John Field b1799 Wighton died as an infant so can be discounted as a parent of your John.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post

    While I was tryig to find Miles-born-1822 in the censuses I found a Miles, aged 42, born Wighton, living in Docking with wife Elizabeth and daughter Susan. So adding two and three and making five, it's possible that Miles is the brother of Mary, the possible mother of John. Miles 'senior' was baptised in Wighton, 30 December 1804, the son of Valentine and Sarah.

    Mary, daughter of Valentine and Sarah Field was baptised 8 March 1798 in Wighton.

    I would 99% say that John is the grandson of Sarah.
    I wouldn't like to go as far as saying he is even 50% the illegitimate son of Mary until I'd check out the other children of Valentine and Sarah.

    John possibly became a carpenter because of Miles-born-1822.

    Pam
    Obviously no-one else spotted my previous mistake when I said that Miles-baptised-in-1804 was baptised in Wells. I have changed it to Wighton to avoid confusion if anyone reads this thread/my post at a future date.

    I am now off to stand in the corner and recite a million times 'I should not try and do research after midninght'.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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