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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jomot1 View Post
    How have you ruled these out - by obtaining birth certificates, or by some other means?

    Whilst it may be true, I'm sceptical about the story of his parents dying in a train crash, and also the inheritance story.

    You mention that 'they moved to London from Yorkshire' and imply that they were living together (in Yorkshire?) before their marriage in 1947 - if so, where in Yorkshire?

    Also, if you don't know their names, how do you know for sure that he had older siblings?

    Could he be trying to cover up that he was actually illegitimate? As you mentioned Blackpool area, this could be a possibility, although its only one of several (and assumes his stated YoB was incorrect)

    SANDERSON, ALBERT (no mother's maiden name, implying illegitimacy)
    GRO Reference: 1912 S Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 1089
    This could maybe be relevant. Lancs OPC have a baptism 7 SEP 1912 at St Michael Kirkham
    Albert Ernest Sanderson child of Nancy Sanderson. Abode Newton.
    The Fylde birth already found on Lancs BMD was registered at Kirkham.

    1911census has an Agnes Sanderson 26, domestic servant with William Pemberton Hall and family at Kirkham. A possible Nancy?

    There is also a Gladys Sanderson b 1910 no mmn. In 1911she is a boarder at Newton.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by grisel View Post
    This could maybe be relevant. Lancs OPC have a baptism 7 SEP 1912 at St Michael Kirkham
    Albert Ernest Sanderson child of Nancy Sanderson. Abode Newton.
    The Fylde birth already found on Lancs BMD was registered at Kirkham.

    1911census has an Agnes Sanderson 26, domestic servant with William Pemberton Hall and family at Kirkham. A possible Nancy?

    There is also a Gladys Sanderson b 1910 no mmn. In 1911she is a boarder at Newton.
    Now thats a very interesting baptism, and goes nicely with the birth registration.

    There is a Nancy Sanderson aged 11 in the 1901 census at Little Eccleston, Fylde with parents Richard & Elizabeth, plus siblings that include a brother named Ernest.

    There is also a report in the Lancashire Evening Post 29 September 1925 about the death of a 10 week old baby called Fred Sanderson, mother Nancy Sanderson of 15 Manchester Road. GRO again shows no mmn, and Lancs BMD gives the sub-district as Broughton - the Nancy in the 1901 census also had a brother called Fred.

    1901: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

    1911: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
    Last edited by Jomot1; 29-07-2020 at 4:10 PM. Reason: added info

  3. #13
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    Ooohhh! Richard - Nancy's father - has an army record in which he claims to have a son named Albert Sanderson, born 19 Aug 1912, Kirkham: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...944&pId=613604

    ADDED: Nancy and Edith (mentioned on the army record) both have the mmn MILLER, which agrees with the marriage details for Richard, but there is no Albert Sanderson mmn Miller born in 1912.

    Ties in with being raised by grandparents as per the original post.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jomot1 View Post
    Ooohhh! Richard - Nancy's father - has an army record in which he claims to have a son named Albert Sanderson, born 19 Aug 1912, Kirkham: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...944&pId=613604

    ADDED: Nancy and Edith (mentioned on the army record) both have the mmn MILLER, which agrees with the marriage details for Richard, but there is no Albert Sanderson mmn Miller born in 1912.

    Ties in with being raised by grandparents as per the original post.
    Good finds Jomot!

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Some other details needed from the marriage certificate. The ages of both Ernest and Esther, and whether Ernest was a bachelor, widower, or divorced. I'm assuming that Esther was a spinster.

    ADDED: Also, what was Ernest's occupation on the marriage certificate?

    Pam
    Hi Pam

    I've received a copy of my grandparents' marriage certificate today and can confirm the following:

    Ernest was 34yrs old, a bachelor and was a permanent way labourer. In brackets, after his occupation, it says LPYB. Doesn't anyone know what this is or what it may refer to?

    Esther was 28 and a spinster.

    I was delighted to find that under Ernest's father's name, it didn't just have deceased, it also had Ernest Albert Sanderson! I think I am right to assume that this must be the name of his father and not just be repeating his own name?! I say this because Esther's father was also deceased, but he is named and has deceased written in brackets. It also has Ernest's father's occupation as a steelworker.

    If my maths is correct, either Ernest's age on the certificate is wrong or he was born in 1912 and not 1913, as he was due to turn 34 a few weeks after they were married. They were married 2nd Aug 1947 and Ernest was believed to be born 17th Aug 1913.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jomot1 View Post
    How have you ruled these out - by obtaining birth certificates, or by some other means?

    Whilst it may be true, I'm sceptical about the story of his parents dying in a train crash, and also the inheritance story.

    You mention that 'they moved to London from Yorkshire' and imply that they were living together (in Yorkshire?) before their marriage in 1947 - if so, where in Yorkshire?

    Also, if you don't know their names, how do you know for sure that he had older siblings?

    Could he be trying to cover up that he was actually illegitimate? As you mentioned Blackpool area, this could be a possibility, although its only one of several (and assumes his stated YoB was incorrect)

    SANDERSON, ALBERT (no mother's maiden name, implying illegitimacy)
    GRO Reference: 1912 S Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 1089
    I obtained birth records through the GRO.

    Unfortunately I'm not sure of their whereabouts before moving to London - it is our families belief that they were in Yorkshire, but I have not yet found anything to confirm this. I thought I had found them in Penistone, but I think it is a different Albert and Esther.

    The information about older siblings comes from his children.

    He could have absolutely been trying to cover up illegitimacy or something similar. I'll look more into the record you have found, thank you!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AimeeMarie View Post
    Hi Pam

    Ernest was 34yrs old, a bachelor and was a permanent way labourer. In brackets, after his occupation, it says LPYB. Doesn't anyone know what this is or what it may refer to?
    Are you sure it isnt LPTB? London Passenger Transport Board

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jomot1 View Post
    Are you sure it isnt LPTB? London Passenger Transport Board
    Ah, yes! I think you’re right.

    It seems he stuck with transport as I am told he was a bus driver later on!

  9. #19
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    If the 1912 birth/baptism for Albert/Albert Ernest Sanderson turns out to be the right person - and I think it is - then it looks like he stayed in the area until at least his early 20's.

    There is an article in the Lancashire Evening Post 27 Sep 1934 about a man named Harry Dougherty of Skerton alleged to have stolen a bicycle belonging to Albert Ernest Sanderson at Skittam Farm, Out Rawcliffe, where they both worked.

    Nancy was born in Out Rawcliffe.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AimeeMarie View Post
    Hi Pam

    I've received a copy of my grandparents' marriage certificate today and can confirm the following:

    Ernest was 34yrs old, a bachelor and was a permanent way labourer. In brackets, after his occupation, it says LPYB. Doesn't anyone know what this is or what it may refer to?

    Esther was 28 and a spinster.

    I was delighted to find that under Ernest's father's name, it didn't just have deceased, it also had Ernest Albert Sanderson! I think I am right to assume that this must be the name of his father and not just be repeating his own name?! I say this because Esther's father was also deceased, but he is named and has deceased written in brackets. It also has Ernest's father's occupation as a steelworker.

    If my maths is correct, either Ernest's age on the certificate is wrong or he was born in 1912 and not 1913, as he was due to turn 34 a few weeks after they were married. They were married 2nd Aug 1947 and Ernest was believed to be born 17th Aug 1913.
    Although it is quite possible (but assuming Albert is the one we have found) I wouldn't assume that his father's name was actually Ernest Albert nor that his occupation was a steel worker. This might be an unlikely occupation in a fairly rural area. These could all have been made up to cover his illegitimacy.

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