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  1. #1
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    Default Surnames Brownhill and Fenn

    Hello, am hoping someone will have time to ponder over my research. I have:
    1)Joseph John Brownhill married Mary Jane Fenn in Walsall (UK BDM Vol 6b Page 1077)in Dec qtr 1875.
    2)1850 Mary Jane Fenn born in Wolverhampton, UK, daughter of Samuel John Fenn and Jane (nee Welch) (Vol 17 Page 358) - which I hope are the right family.

    Can anyone tell me anything more about either family. I believe they are the parents of Frank Herbert Brownhill (who came to Australia, although I haven't find out when - pre war, when he enlisted in Aust) and his brother Ernest Harold, who remained in England.

    Thank you so much in anticipation

  2. #2
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    1. Have you got the marriage certificate of Joseph and Mary, which should tell you the names and occupations of their fathers?

    2. Have you traced Joseph and Mary and their children, and before their marriage, with their parents on the censuses?

    You should have bookmarked FreeBMD (which has the best search engine ever) which although still a work in progress is an almost complete transcription of the GRO Index 1 July 1837-31 Dec 1983, and the GRO's own site which you can search for deaths 1837-1957 and from 1984 till last year, and births from 1837-1919 with the bonus being that mother's maiden names are included in this index. You have to register to search, but searching is free, the biggest bonus of all being that for any entry in the index you have an easy link to order a certificate.
    https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/login.asp

    Using the GRO Index, you will easily be able to confirm the mmn for Frank and Ernest.
    I was also about to add 'and possibly for Mary Jane', when the GRO Index blew a great big hole in your tree. Her mother's maiden name is not listed as Welch.

    There are at least two reasons why this can happen.
    1. There were two (or more) Mary Jane's born in that area circa 1850 but only one of them had her birth registered. (Not all births prior to 1874 were registered.)
    2. Jane, allegedly nee Welch was actually a widow when she married Samuel, so again - have you got their marriage certificate?

    You have to work back, step by step, census by census, making sure that you double-check any other 'possibles', rather than just dismiss them because they don't fit what you want them to fit. (If you know what I mean. )

    Checking out the actual Mary Jane on the 1851 census and the mother's maiden name for the other children with her, and then searching for a possible marriage of the parents on FreeBMD will lead you to a helpful note. (Click on the envelope at the side of the entry.)

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #3
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    Thanks for response Pam. I am actually searching for a friend, who typically doesn't want to spend $s on certificates, and I do not currently have a subscription with Ancestry etc, so haven't been able to access Census, which I find so useful of course - hence my request for someone with little to do to help me. I use freebdm of course, which is where I found what I had (albeit 1/2 wrong) so I will have a go with GRO.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    1881 census
    RG 11 Piece 2827 Folio 107 Page 3
    1 Sutton Crescent Walsall, Staffordshire
    Joseph Brownhill 30 Secretary for an Iron Manufacturing company. Walsall, Staffordshire,
    Mary J. Brownhill 31 Willenhall, Staffordshire
    Percy V. Brownhill 4 Walsall, Staffordshire,
    Ernest H. Brownhill 2 Walsall, Staffordshire,
    Frank H. Brownhill 1 Walsall, Staffordshire,
    Eliza Hove 18
    The three boys all have mother's maiden name Fenn on the GRO index.
    I see where Frank H gives his brother Ernest as NOK on his Australian WW1 service record

    Frank Herbert Brownhill
    Age 32
    Agriculturalist
    Birth Date about 1881
    Departure Date 18 July 1913
    Port of Departure - Liverpool, England
    Destination Port - Santos, Brazil
    Ship Name - Desna
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  5. #5
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    Grateful thanks Christanel. I have followed the previous advice re GRO okay. But this census will be a great help, likewise the ship departure. I had actually found a newspaper clipping where Frank was assisting an agriculturalist in Qld so I am stoked that I can tie that in as well. thank you so much.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Percy V Brownhill
    Spouse Name Louisa E Brache
    Marriage Date 1921
    Marriage Place - New South Wales
    Registration Place - Randwick, New South Wales
    Registration Year - 1921
    Registration Number = 12376

    Percy Victor Brownhill
    Birth Date 1876
    Death Date 10 July 1937
    Cemetery - Point Clare Cemetery
    Burial or Cremation Place - Point Clare, Central Coast Council, New South Wales, Australia

    New South Wales, Australia, Index to Deceased Estate Files, 1859-1958
    Percy Victor Brownhill
    Residence Place - Gosford
    Death Date 10 July 1937
    Occupation - Gentleman

    Percy Victor Brownhill
    Death Date - 10 July 1937
    Death Place New South Wales
    Probate Date - 7 Feb 1938
    Probate Registry - Sydney

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  7. #7
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    Very interesting Christina. So another brother came out. One wonders how often they may have linked up. Gentleman. Mmmm. Well done, I hadn't thought about chasing down other family members, enough trouble with the main line, as you can no doubt tell. Many thanks again.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    1891 census
    RG12 Piece 2254 Folio 105
    Joseph Brownhill 40 Widow, Secretary to Public company, Walsall
    Percy V Brownhill 14 Walsall,
    Ernest H Brownhill 12 Walsall
    Frank H Brownhill 11 Walsall
    Ethel M Brownhill 9 Walsall
    Elsie M Brownhill 7 Walsall
    Lilian Brownhill 6 Walsall
    Sarah F Lord 34 Servant
    Ellen Sheldon 25 Servant

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  9. #9
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    1901 RG13 Piece 2858 Folio 129 Page 31
    25 Grantham Rd Aston Warwickshire
    Joseph Brownhill 50 Secretary Rope works
    Ernest H Brownhill 22 Section manager India rubber works
    Frank H Brownhill 21 Clerk for general merchant
    Ethel M Brownhill 19
    Elsie M Brownhill 17
    Lilian Brownhill 16

    All born Walsall'
    So sometime after the 1891 census they moved to Warwickshire

    This could be Joseph the father in 1871 prior to his marriage
    RG10 Piece 2963 Folio 20 Page 35
    214 ?? Place, Walsall
    Edward Brownhill 40 Head, Collector of Queen's ?? Tipton Staffordshire
    Mercy Brownhill 32 Sister, House keeper Bilston Staffordshire
    John J Brownhill 30 brother iron foundry employer Bilston Staffordshire
    Silas Brownhill 29 ?? Bilston Staffordshire
    Elizabeth Brownhill 23 Bilston Staffordshire
    Joseph Brownhill 20 draughtsman Walsall

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JandL View Post
    Thanks for response Pam. I am actually searching for a friend, who typically doesn't want to spend $s on certificates, and I do not currently have a subscription with Ancestry etc, so haven't been able to access Census, which I find so useful of course - hence my request for someone with little to do to help me. I use freebdm of course, which is where I found what I had (albeit 1/2 wrong) so I will have a go with GRO.
    Ancestry and Findmypast allow free access to most of their records through public libraries. Some libraries have subscritions to both sites, some to only one. I don't know how Australian libraries work, but in the UK we can access the records at home after inserting a pin number on the library website. I know people who weren't library members have been able to join remotely during Covid restrictions. So do ask at your local library.

    I presume you've warned your friend that sometimes it's necessary to spend money on certificates, etc, in order to prove a relationship. If they're one of those people who are 'difficult to buy for', he/she could always ask for a certificate as a birthday/Christmas present.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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