Trade vs Gent

[Ambersand]

In novels set during the Regency period, there is often a clear class distinction between those who made their money in Trade and the gentry, no matter how poor. From what I can gather Britain was changing because of the Industrial Revolution so titles and family started losing their relevance.

Talking London 1815 though. I think my 4Ggrandfather had made money as a Licensed Victualler (even buying into becoming a Burgess in Bristol) so wanted the best for his only child.Hoping for him to become accepted in Society.

A few lines of my 3G grandfather’s will make me wonder whether that jump had failed. He had described himself as Gent on some baptism certificates but wanted his son to be an apprentice cook. Maybe because his best friend had been one and was doing very well financially. And judging by the probate notices I found, the friend’s children etc did even better, building decent professions. Photographers, furniture dealers, Licensed victuallers

How were Licensed Victuallers seen in society? Would he have been accepted as one of them?

[Guy Etchells]

In novels set during the Regency period, there is often a clear class distinction between those who made their money in Trade and the gentry, no matter how poor. From what I can gather Britain was changing because of the Industrial Revolution so titles and family started losing their relevance.

I would first note, as I am sure you realise, novels are in many cases a romanticised version of the past aimed at stirring emotions in their readers rather than accurately portraying history.
I would also note the Regency period covered the last 9 years George III, up to his death when his son George Prince Regent to rule in his place (February 1811 until January 1820).

Talking London 1815 though. I think my 4Ggrandfather had made money as a Licensed Victualler (even buying into becoming a Burgess in Bristol) so wanted the best for his only child.Hoping for him to become accepted in Society.

As a Licensed Victualler it would make sense to pay to become a Burgess as he could then trade in the burgh without paying a fee (They could obtain these rights by inheritance, by marriage, by purchase, or by the gift of a burgh).
I am not sure what you mean by Society, in England, if not the whole of the UK there were many levels of Society, here is a rough and ready rundown.-

Polite Society, generally the more refined types who understood and acted with good manners.
Old Money, most commonly the established landowners who followed the established rules and duties set out over the centuries
New Money, often brash enthusiastic industrialists who tried to improve their lives by throwing money at obstacles.
General Society, the merchants or craftsmen and tradesmen and professions, who provide the bulk of the supply industry.
As I mentioned the above is very rough and ready and is more of a guide to show how all sections of society fitted together performing their tasks and duties to make the country tick over each one depending on the other to survive. Each “level” had a duty to the others.

A few lines of my 3G grandfather’s will make me wonder whether that jump had failed. He had described himself as Gent on some baptism certificates but wanted his son to be an apprentice cook. Maybe because his best friend had been one and was doing very well financially. And judging by the probate notices I found, the friend’s children etc did even better, building decent professions. Photographers, furniture dealers, Licensed victuallers

How were Licensed Victuallers seen in society? Would he have been accepted as one of them?

Licensed Victuallers covered a large group from the landlord of a small village pub interacting with his/her customers everyday to a select wine merchant who spent most of their time touring the vineyards and throwing tastings for their select clientele and everything in between.
Some would be accepted some would be looked up to and some looked down on.

Cheers
Guy

[helachau]

In 1819 licensed victuallers (London area only but imagine problems applied nationwide?) presented a petition to Parliament, airing grievances. It's in Hansard 5 May 1819.

Can't post but URL but you can find it at https://hansard.parliament.uk/search?partial=False
Click on link - pop "licensed victualler" in text search and restrict from/to "05/05/1819"

[Guy Etchells]

In 1819 licensed victuallers (London area only but imagine problems applied nationwide?) presented a petition to Parliament, airing grievances. It's in Hansard 5 May 1819.

Can't post but URL but you can find it at https://hansard.parliament.uk/search?partial=False
Click on link - pop "licensed victualler" in text search and restrict from/to "05/05/1819"

The three pages may be found at

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01pjv/

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01pjw/

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01pjx/

Cheers
Guy

[Ambersand]

Thanks Guy and Helachau for the heads up. Interesting reading. Didn't they have punctuation back then, lol.

It sounds like it was a time of change between anything goes to regulations. And of course that engendered favouritism and dare I suggest opportunities for the unscrupulous.

"whose house had been, the resort of the vilest of mankind" Pubs must have improved since then.

"In one town there were not less than 67 public houses all of which were in the hands of brewers." while the numbers might have decreased significantly, the preponderance of Brewer owned Pubs has once more become a talking point.