1848 marriage certificate query

[Ambersand]

We have a copy of a 1848 marriage certificate with the father’s name and occupation in the relevant column.

Can we assume from this that the father was alive at the time of the wedding?

Would they have included info eg dec. if he was dead, or left it blank or filled it in regardless?

[Peter Goodey]

Can we assume from this that the father was alive at the time of the wedding?

I take it he's not entered as a witness?

I'm afraid the answer to the question if "no". Between all of us here, we'll have found every permutation of inaccurate information about the father.

The only safe approach is never to trust information about the father without finding some supporting information.

Of course, you could use the father's name as a working hypothesis and then try an disprove it.

[Pam Downes]

Did the bride/groom have any siblings? Is it possible to check out their marriage certificates onine? I say online, because if you have to purchase certificates from the GRO at eleven pounds a time it could soon prove an expensive way of trying to find an answer.

Pam

[Ambersand]

No, the father wasn’t a witness, and the bridegroom had no siblings. “He was an only son of an only son”.
I was hoping people who have got marriage certificates from around 1850 could give feedback of whether info was filled in even though the father was known to be dead.
I totally get the “every permutation” comment, and forms not being filled correctly, but even getting confirmation that others have that section filled even though parent was dead would suggest I can look pre 1850 for father’s death certificate....as you say, they get expensive.
The information is correct on it. His name was Richard and he was a Secretary. That’s not my problem. It’s could he have died pre 1850 if his details are listed on the MC.

[Peter Goodey]

The field wouldn't be left blank if he was dead. People were reluctant to leave the father's name blank because it implied illegitimacy. If someone didn't know his or father's name, they tended to make something up.

If he was dead, the father's name might be shown as "John Smith (deceased)". Or it might not.

The best you can say is that if it says "deceased" he probably was. It it doesn't say "deceased", he might still be alive or he might not.

[Ambersand]

The field wouldn't be left blank if he was dead. People were reluctant to leave the father's name blank because it implied illegitimacy. If someone didn't know his or father's name, they tended to make something up.

If he was dead, the father's name might be shown as "John Smith (deceased)". Or it might not.

The best you can say is that if it says "deceased" he probably was. It it doesn't say "deceased", he might still be alive or he might not.

Thanks. I feared something like that. Interestingly we’re pretty sure the wife was illegitimate and they even have a ? after her surname and a dash for the father’s section.
Plus we suspect Richard (the groom’s father) may himself have been illegitimate.
So it’s back to the drawing board for Richard’s birth and death.

[Lesley Robertson]

Even if someone was not illegitimate, they might (especially in the 19th century) make something up if they don't know a necessary name. For example, my Grandfather's eldest brother gave the wrong name for their mother when he registered their father's death. She had died when the children were young, and he presumably only knew her as "mother" or one of the variations. I had all the other evidence that it was the right man and he had not remarried, fortunately.

[Ambersand]

Thanks. His father’s death, possibly 14 years pre marriage, fits with some of the things that happened, eg being switched from St Anne’s to a Blue Coat school, so that makes sense. Means he was orphaned at 13, no siblings, possibly no other relatives, so he survived pretty well.