Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: John McNay

  1. #1
    Settling in
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12

    Default John McNay

    Hi all, I'm from Australia and I've hit a brick wall with my Great Great Great Grandfather John McNay. I've searched so many sites with misleading or wrong information.

    I only know that he was born in 1832 in either England or Scotland and that he passed away at the age of 26 in Oakbank, Balhannah, South Australia, Australia.
    I also know with searching with Ancestry, that he arrived on the "Hyderabad" ship that sailed from London 23rd November 1853 & Southampton 7th December 1853, arrive in Port Adelaide, South Australia, Australia 14th March 1854. Going by that record, he came with Elizabeth Rogerson and she was born in 1833 and passed away in 1875 in Oakbank, Balhannah, South Australia, Australia.

    Once in Australia, they had 2 children, George (1855-1923 my Great Great Grandfather) & John (1856-1909), both born in Mount Charles, Onkaparinga, South Australia.

    After John senior passed away in 1858, Elizabeth gave birth to Janet McNay (1861-1886) the father is "unknown", she was born in Oakbank, Balhannah, South Australia, Australia.

    In 1870, she married David Chamberlain (1828-1902)and had another 2 kids, Albert (1871-1914) & Henry (1873-1959) both in Oakbank, Balhannah, South Australia, Australia.

    In 1839 James McNay (1807-1877), his wife Jean (Jane) Johnstone (1804-1847) & children John (1826-1860), Archibald (1829-1909), Jane (1833-1891) & Gilchrist (Born at sea) were aboard the "David Clark" Ship that left Greenock, Scotland on 15 June 1839 and arrived at Port Phillip on 27 October 1839. They had 2 more children once in Australia, Margaret (1842-1918 & Lillias (1845-1932).

    I'm not sure if both families are related. A lot of people on Ancestry have the "John" I'm looking for as the "John" from the family I just mentioned, but it cant be, as the "John" from James & Jean McNay, drowned in Victoria, Australia in 1860.

    So if anyone can help with my "John" it'll be very much appreciated. His parents, brothers, sisters etc etc.

    Regards
    Marc

  2. #2
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    1,642

    Default

    Hi Marc, and welcome.

    Your mention of the "David Clarke" caught my eye, as some members of my family were on the same voyage. The arrivals list for mine gives their native place, so I thought I'd look for your James to see where he was from.

    I couldn't find him as McNay, but searching just for the forename Gilchrist (the easiest to find) I found a family that matched yours almost exactly, except that the surname was Menzies. Their native place was Dumfries - in my family's case, 'Perth' refers to the county rather than the town, so the same might be true here. Does this anomaly go anywhere towards explaining your problem?

    I also tried to find details of John's arrival in 1854, to see what his native place was given as, but I couldn't find it. Since you seem to have it, what does it say?

  3. #3
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,534

    Default

    On the archives.sa.gov.au site for the Hyderabad 1854 on page7/12 John and Elizabeth McNay age 24 and 22. John a farm servant from Dumfries (poss the county of)
    I see some possibilities for John and Elizabeth in Dryfesdale near Lockerbie and will look further.1

  4. #4
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grisel View Post
    On the archives.sa.gov.au site for the Hyderabad 1854 on page7/12 John and Elizabeth McNay age 24 and 22. John a farm servant from Dumfries (poss the county of)
    I see some possibilities for John and Elizabeth in Dryfesdale near Lockerbie and will look further.1
    Here are the possibilities from Dryfesdale but further checking wouls be needed.
    1841 census freecen High St Dryfesdale, John McNay 10 with Grace Chalmers 50 and Agness Carruthers 33

    SP baptism 1833 Dryfesdale
    Elisabeth Rogerson d/o George Rogerson and Janet Tweedie
    Above family I think in Lochmaben in 1841 Elisabeth as Betty age 7

  5. #5
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    1,642

    Default

    Thanks for finding the Hyderabad, grisel - I couldn't spot it at Ancestry and didn't have time earlier to look at the government archives site.

    I'm a bit inclined to wait for Marc's return before doing any more on this. At present it's looking as though James in 1839 and John in 1854 may have come from the same county, but he may be able to help us with the different surnames.

  6. #6
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,534

    Default

    Yes there do seem to be a number of McNays and Rogersons in this part of the county!
    Including in 1841 another 10 yr old John,in Kirkmichael,grandson to Joseph..

  7. #7
    Settling in
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grisel View Post
    Here are the possibilities from Dryfesdale but further checking wouls be needed.
    1841 census freecen High St Dryfesdale, John McNay 10 with Grace Chalmers 50 and Agness Carruthers 33

    SP baptism 1833 Dryfesdale
    Elisabeth Rogerson d/o George Rogerson and Janet Tweedie
    Above family I think in Lochmaben in 1841 Elisabeth as Betty age 7
    Yes that's correct, I have her parents as George Rogerson (1800-1869) and Janet Tweedie (1810-1848)

  8. #8
    Settling in
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arthurk View Post
    Thanks for finding the Hyderabad, grisel - I couldn't spot it at Ancestry and didn't have time earlier to look at the government archives site.

    I'm a bit inclined to wait for Marc's return before doing any more on this. At present it's looking as though James in 1839 and John in 1854 may have come from the same county, but he may be able to help us with the different surnames.
    I actually got the document off someone in email, I think they got it from the site grisel said.


  9. #9
    Settling in
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12

    Default

    I even came across a John McNay (1801-1854) who married Isabella Muir (1802-1875)
    He was born at Balhasie Farm, Kirkmabreck Parish, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland & Isabella born in Sheffield, Yorkshire, Scotland.
    They had 7 children that I know of, James Muir McNay (1826-1901) born in Sheffield, Yorkshire, England. Mary (1828) Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland, David (1831-1832) unsure where born, John McNay (1832) Sheffield, Yorkshire, England. William (1834) unsure where born. Jessie McNay (1835-1905) Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland. Isabella (1837) Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland. Thomas (1839)Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland.

    I thought this was my John until some internet searching showed a lot of unusual comparisons. This site https://gordons.site44.com/g1/p105.htm#i2604 has the Father, Mother and children the same,but his "John McNay" is spelt "John McNey".

    He claims his "John" is correct due to this article https://www.archive.org/stream/biogr...e/934/mode/2up

    Also, apparently a book was released that claims his story https://www.kirkcudbright.co/history...ID=298&p=5&g=4

    I'm not sure why his surname is spelt McNey, yet other family members is spelt McNay.

    I've done a lot of searching on his "John" as so many dates don't match up.

    The other day, I found on Ancestry a John McNey that was on the “Benjamin Adams” ship.
    It says he was born in 1833 and was 22 years old when arriving in New York, November 15th 1855. The John McNey on the Gordon site, was born 5th may 1831, that would make him 24 when arriving. So his gravestone says the birth date is right, but the document is 2 years out?

    Yet this says he was born 1836.




    I also had this sent to me



    Could this be my John and that Gordon site is completely wrong?

  10. #10
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    1,642

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcMcNay View Post
    I even came across a John McNay (1801-1854) who married Isabella Muir (1802-1875)
    He was born at Balhasie Farm, Kirkmabreck Parish, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland & Isabella born in Sheffield, Yorkshire, Scotland.
    They had 7 children that I know of, James Muir McNay (1826-1901) born in Sheffield, Yorkshire, England. Mary (1828) Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland, David (1831-1832) unsure where born, John McNay (1832) Sheffield, Yorkshire, England. William (1834) unsure where born. Jessie McNay (1835-1905) Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland. Isabella (1837) Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland. Thomas (1839)Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland.

    I thought this was my John until some internet searching showed a lot of unusual comparisons. This site https://gordons.site44.com/g1/p105.htm#i2604 has the Father, Mother and children the same,but his "John McNay" is spelt "John McNey".

    He claims his "John" is correct due to this article https://www.archive.org/stream/biogr...e/934/mode/2up

    Also, apparently a book was released that claims his story https://www.kirkcudbright.co/history...ID=298&p=5&g=4

    I'm not sure why his surname is spelt McNey, yet other family members is spelt McNay.
    When you get back to the early 19th century, it's very common to find surnames spelled in a variety of ways. You'll know better than I do, but I suspect McNay and McNey are pronounced exactly the same. So even if the bearer of the name had a preferred and settled way of spelling it (often they didn't, and there were large numbers of people who couldn't write anyway), there's no guarantee that someone hearing the name - a parish clerk, for example - wouldn't write it down the way they thought it should be spelled.

    Don't get too hung up on minor date discrepancies either - for most people knowing exactly when they were born wasn't very important.

    I'm afraid I'm getting a bit lost now that we seem to have gone to America, so can I take you back to where you started - whether there's a connection between John McNay who arrived in Port Adelaide in 1854 and James McNay who arrived in Port Phillip in 1837.

    In my first reply (post #2 above) I mentioned that I hadn't found a James McNay on the David Clarke in 1837, but I had found a James Menzies whose family looked remarkably similar. I don't think McNay is a variant of Menzies (or vice versa), but is it possible that someone has misread Menzies as McNay, and this is a complete red herring?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Select a file: