JAMES FARNELL BOATMAN

[Groundhopper]

Now this really is a brickwall....My great Grandmother Mary Farnell married Thomas Hill in September 1888 in Coseley Staffordshire. She gives her fathers name as James Farnell boatman and her age as 25. when their children are born gives her name as formerly Farnell. Her residence at time of marriage is given as highfields... And that is my brick wall...i cannot find either her or her father on any census return or any certificate. It gets very complicated before that but i may have gone wrong...so lets ignore that for the moment and see if anyone can find either Good luck...

[Pam Downes]

No, no, you should know by now, that this is not how the system works.

In addition to the very minumum info you've given, you also need to tell us where you have found Mary and Thomas living in 1891, 1901, and 1911. Census references beginning RG12. RG13, and RG14 are extremely helpful in enabling us to make sure that we're looking at the same records as you.
You also tell us Mary's age and birthplace in each of those censuses.

Then we are in a better position to help, rather than having to go off out into the wilds and hope we find something.

Pam

[Groundhopper]

Sorry Pam...just gone up into the loft and got the file..the 1901 census was in the stuff i lost but i have them in 1891 living at 27 Highfield Road, Coseley, Staffordshire Thomas is 25 a furnace labourer born Daisy bank and Mary is 28 also from Daisy Bank.their 1st child is Violet aged 9 months. I know theyhave another four daughters Gertrude in 1892 Lillian May in 1894 Elsie in 1896 and Gladys in 1899. Auntie Elsie used to live with my Aunt so i knew her when i was a child...I have the birth cert for Lillian May in 1894 and they were still living at 27 Highfield Road then...

[Pam Downes]

An important question.
Do you have an active subscription to either FMP or Ancestry?
Alternatively, are you a member of your local library?
If the answer to all of them is 'no, then (a) you should still be able to join your library and although it says you can access Ancestry at the library you might now be able to access it at home. Do ask, because you'd hopefully then be able to at least replace your missing census records/images.

Alternatively if you haven't already done so, it's worth thinking about taking out a 14-day free trial with either Ancestry or FMP, and then swapping over to the other one, as they have different records. Just make sure you follow exactly the details about cancelling /automatic renewal at the end of the 14 days.

I must have spent the best part of an hour looking on the various censuses. checking registration districts for births, etc, anything for a clue, and all I have to show for it is that in the 1891 census they're living in the village of Coseley, in the civil parish of Sedgley/ Census reference RG12/2289 folio 89 page 1.
Births registered in Dudley registration district.
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/dudley.html

I'm too tired to look further, but you could try searching using first names and ages for Thomas, Mary and children, living in Coseley or Sedgley in 1901 and 1911 to see if Mary's (and Thomas's) birthplace changes from Daisy Bank, which may be somewhere local to Cosley/Sedgley. (Check out old maps to see if you can see Daisy Bank marked.)
I know I'm emphasising on Mary and Thomas, rather than James, but sometimes people's birthplaces change in the census, and that change can give you a clue.

Also worth using the same criteria for searching for Mary and James in the earlier censuses.

Mary's birth might not have been registered, because not all births prior to 1874 were, so you should look for a possible baptism for her instead.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

Sorry, forgot to give the link to Derbyshire libraries.
https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisur...l-history.aspx

https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisur...d-culture.aspx

[geneius]

Mary states born Bilston Staffs

Thomas states born Sedgeley Staffs on 1911 census

1901 RG13; Piece: 2741; Folio: 128; Page: 38

The 1891 census would be the first the couple would appear as a married couple

Mary is living with the TURTON's in 1939 she states her dob is 11 March 1863

If you look at familysearch you will find a FARRELL family living in Bilston in 1871 / 1881! Intersting as The Jean Trurton b 1929 has this name entered against her.

Winesses to the marriage may help.

There is a Isaiah HILL living on Highfields Road according to the voters list, maybe a relative

[almach]

As geneius said in 1939 Mary Hill is living with William Turton a widow, Jean M A Turton born 08/02/1929 and John Turton 01/01/1935

I think William is Mary's son-in-law. Marriage Sept 1927, Dudley, 6b 2089, Lilian M Hill/William Turton.

Maybe a coincidence but Jean M A Turton married Manuel A Farnell, Dec qrt 1956, Rowley R., 9b 683.

[almach]

Births Sep 1928, Dudley, 6b 1464, Manuel A Farnell, Mother's maiden name Fenwick.

Marriages Mar 1916, Tynemouth 10b 550, Jane I Fenwick/Henry Farnell

Following Henry Farnell's direct line back there's no James a boatman, perhaps Farnell is coincidental or James is a sideline.

[Groundhopper]

Births Sep 1928, Dudley, 6b 1464, Manuel A Farnell, Mother's maiden name Fenwick.

Marriages Mar 1916, Tynemouth 10b 550, Jane I Fenwick/Henry Farnell

Following Henry Farnell's direct line back there's no James a boatman, perhaps Farnell is coincidental or James is a sideline.

These are my parents...Tony as he was known married Jean Turton. There is no known connection between the two Farnell families..that i am aware of BUT I AM CURIOUS..
Thomas Hill had a younger brother called Isiah...

[Jomot1]

The Farrell family mentioned by Geneius at post #5 is very interesting.

They were Irish Catholics, and Mary’s baptism was on 31 Jan 1864, parents James Farrell & Ann Goodwin (other baptisms say Godwin), but the first birth I can see being registered is James Farrel in 1870, followed by Patrick Farrell in 1872 and Winifred in 1875. All mmn Godwin.

Did Mary marry in church or at a register office? If it was a church then do you have the church copy, as the GRO may have mistranscribed James' occupation. Who were the witnesses?