William McIntyre, my brick wall

[Bunbury125]

I may have mentioned this ancestor before but he is one of my hardest brick walls to crack.
The only facts are as follows:

William lived in Kendal Westmorland from 1870 until his death in c1913. The censuses from 1871 - 1911 describe his birthplace as Liverpool and the date of birth about 1843. He is pretty consistent with this information so far so good.
He married Elizabeth Pollard in kendal in 1871.

He gave his name as William John Mcfaden McIntyre and signed his own name in very nice "copperplate like" handwriting.

Elizabeth was from Thornbey in Durham and the couple's 1st child Mary Ann was born there in 1864.
Their 2nd Child Eliza was born in Kelso in 1866(They claimed to have been married in Liverpool in 1862 when this birth was registered but this wasn't true)
3rd Child Daniel born in Penrith Cumberland in 1868.
All other Chilren near Westmorland.
William was a Catholic and Elizabeth was protestant and when they eventually married it was in a Catholic church so she must have converted and that explains the delay.

The problem I have is that I cannot find his birth at all.
His father was called William (according to the marriage certificate not deceased in 1871)
But try as I might I can't find a suitable William McIntyre born in Liverpool at that time.
Only birth is 1844 mother Jefferson but the father is Edward so cannot be this.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to find him or why he called himself William John Mcfaden McIntyre.
Would appreciate any thoughts
Many thanks
B

[Megan Roberts]

Ancestry have the Catholic parish registers for Liverpool going back to the 1754, and there is nothing even close for a William John Mcfaden McIntyre. Nor can I see a marriage between a McIntyre and a Mcfaden.

So my guess is that he was hiding something, or hiding from something / someone.

I think your assumption that the delay in the marriage was because she wasn't a Catholic, is probably incorrect - unless you have some clear evidence to the contrary. How do you know she converted?

What was his occupation?

[Bunbury125]

Hi,
Thanks for your reply. I think he was definitely covering his tracks for some reason. I know Elizabeth was certainly a catholic in later life as her granddaughter who was raised by her said she was and they attended the Catholic Church.She also was buried in the Catholic cemetery.
I think it's possible that William wasn't born/ baptized McIntyre. I wonder if he was even from Liverpool.I also,like you checked for a McIntyre/ Mcfaden marriage. Perhaps he was already married when he met Elizabeth and had to hide the fact.
I have been try to look into why they went to Kelso and the address of 12 Horse Market but I can't see a connection unless you discount the name McIntyre.
William was a journeyman, umbrella mender and scissor grinder. My great grandmother always maintained he was well educated and though his family might be Irish.
Once again, many thanks for your help.

B

[Lesley Robertson]

Extra forenames were often given to children between birth registration and baptism. Do you know where McFaden could have come from? Grandmother?

If you can track down the Valuation Rolls (VRs) for Kelso for 1866/67, you may be able to see what he gave as his occupation. You may have to approach Borders Archives about that, but check which dates have been scanned for Scotland’s People first. There’s a bit about the VRs in one of the stickies at the top of the General Scottish forum.

[Jomot1]

There is a possible 1861 census for him lodging in St Bees, Whitehaven - RG9, Piece 3946, Folio 5, Page 7

Mary? McIntire 45 Married Dressmaker b Liverpool
William McIntire 17 Labourer Railway b Liverpool

[Bunbury125]

Extra forenames were often given to children between birth registration and baptism. Do you know where McFaden could have come from? Grandmother?


If you can track down the Valuation Rolls (VRs) for Kelso for 1866/67, you may be able to see what he gave as his occupation. You may have to approach Borders Archives about that, but check which dates have been scanned for Scotland’s People first. There’s a bit about the VRs in one of the stickies at the top of the General Scottish forum.

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply. I will try to hunt out the valuation rolls for any extra information.
I do have Eliza's birth certificate which says he was a Journeyman. The birth is on SP but no extra information given unfortunately.

The name Mcfaden is very much a puzzle as unfortunately have no knowledge of his family except a father's name of William if the information he gave was correct. As a former registrar I know that a lot of information(especially father's name)was taken on declaration.
This doesn't mean it was false I know. I think there must be some reason he used those names.
Perhaps John Mcfaden was a mentor or friend.
I even wondered if Williams's real name was John Mcfaden or any combination of those given names.
I probably I have most probably explored every possible scenario maybe there is no way of knowing any more but I do love a mystery.

Thanks again

B

[Bunbury125]

There is a possible 1861 census for him lodging in St Bees, Whitehaven - RG9, Piece 3946, Folio 5, Page 7

Mary? McIntire 45 Married Dressmaker b Liverpool
William McIntire 17 Labourer Railway b Liverpool

Thank You.I will look into this

B ��