ROBINSON FAMILY

[almach]

Hi Groundhopper,

I suspect there are two families in Stockton with a Thomas Robinson (sawyer) and wife Elizabeth. Therefore, not all the children's baptisms above are belonging to your Thomas and Elizabeth.

Isabell/Isabella/Isobel Simpson you are following https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...son?highlight=
Her birth reg gives mother's maiden name Simpson, so you can eliminate the ones whose MMN isn't Simpson, that is unless Thomas was married twice and both wives were Elizabeth.

ROBINSON, ISABELL SIMPSON, Mother's maiden name SIMPSON
GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in STOCKTON AND SEDGEFIELD Volume 24 Page 256

Robinson is a popular name so it could take some working out to establish which are yours on census.

[Pam Downes]

I think this needs a whole lot more thinking.

Firstly, Robinson is quite a common name, and judging by the baptisms Sandyhall found the combination of the parents names being Thomas and Elizabeth is also very common.

Secondly, not all births prior to 1874 were registered, so judging by the census entries for 1851 and 1861 I think there were possibly some Robinson-Winteringham births which went unregistered.

There's also the possibility of Thomas' first wife, Elizabeth dying, and him then marrying another Elizabeth of a similar age.

The 'new plan' might mean finding every Thomas Robinson in Stockton in 1841, and then through all the censuses. Ditto finding every reference you can for birth registrations, baptisms, marriages for the children, and then eliminating them one by one.

So that we all know exactly who we should be looking for, let's start nearer 1900.
Who, in the 1901 census is your DIRECT ancestor who leads back to the Robinson family?
What's their name, age, and census reference.
Then take that person back to 1891, 1881, 1871, etc, supplying the same details.
Along the way, tell us what proof you've found of that person - birth registration, baptism, marriage, etc. Do you have any BMD certificates, and if you're relying on a transcription, where did you find that transcription. (FamilySearch, FreeREG, Durham baptisms on FMP, etc.)

We may come to the same conclusion as you, we may find other evidence to suggest that you might have the wrong family.

Winteringham is a more unusual surname, though it can be quite common in certain areas of the UK, so you again have to take care.

FMP have an ELizabeth Winteringham marrying in Knaresborough in 1836 to Christopher Lee I can't find any birth registrations for Lee, mmn Winteringham, but that may be because none of them were registered. Or that either the bride or groom died before any children were born, or they emigrated.

So is this the Elizabeth Winteringham whose baptism you've found in Knaresborough, or a different one?
You don't say which year the baptism was, and therefore if the possible age of the baptism Elizabeth matches with the age of the Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Robinson. Is it possible that it's the same Elizabeth, with husband Christopher Lee dying soon after their marriage and then Elizabeth marrying Thomas Robinson as Elizabeth Lee?

The 'numbered' children in the baptism register could just refer to the children of Thomas not Thomas and any number of wives.

Grace Robinson's birth was registered March quarter 1842. There's also a death registration for an Elizabeth Robinson, aged 35, same quarter. Is this Grace's mother who died in, or shortly after, childbirth?

As I said, I think you need to start again with the 1901 census, and then work your way back again. Obviously, you do need to be very sure that you have the correct family in 1901, so have you proved the links back to then with BMD certificates, 1939 Register, etc?

Pam

[almach]

From 1839 they lived at Stockton upon Tees and the parish records are great listing seven baptisms and even giving numbers so Grace baptised in 1842 was recorded as the sixth daughter Isobel the seventh Harriett the eigth and Margaret the 10th...i cannot find the ninth..There is an Elizabeth in 1837 according to the census return and many do not appear to survive very long though i havent searched for death certificates. But i cannot find the earlier children. The mother Elizabeth gives her place of birth as Knaresborough and i have found her baptism. The father gives his birth as both Leeds and Harrogate which seems more likely and i have probable or at least possible baptism their. i found a William Robinson the father in the 1841 census at Harrogate aged 55 but havent found him on the 1851 census...any help or thoughts would be appreciated

Where did you see the baptisms for Isobel 7th and Harriet 8th?

This baptism is from the P.R. and is the only one I've found for Harriet within the timeframe.

11 Feb 1849, Holy Trinity, Stockton.
Harriet's entry in the P.R. says 4th daughter of Thomas (a sawyer) and Elizabeth

If Harriet is the sister to the Isabella you're researching then Grace 6th dau cannot belong to the same family unless as I said Thomas had two wives both named Elizabeth.

[almach]

To complicate things further

ROBINSON, ISABELL SIMPSON, Mother's maiden name SIMPSON
GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in STOCKTON AND SEDGEFIELD Volume 24 Page 256
ROBINSON, JANE ANN, Mother's maiden name SIMPSON
GRO Reference: 1846 J Quarter in STOCKTON AND SEDGEFIELD Volume 24 Page 257

So, are there two Robinson/Simpson pairings in Stockton having babies around the same time?

[Jomot1]

There is a Thomas Robinson marriage in Knaresborough in 1845 to (same page) Elizabeth Simpson.

Bradford Observer 27 February 1845
On Monday at the Parish Church, Knaresbro', Mr Thomas Robinson of Stockton on Tees to Elizabeth, 2nd daughter of Mr T Simpson, hairdresser, of the former place.

Oh, forgot to mention that Stockton is my home town so I might be able to help with any location questions. St Thomas is the parish church on the High Street, Holy Trinity was just off the opposite end of the High Street but suffered a fire and is now a ruins (but I think its beautiful).

[almach]

There is a Thomas Robinson marriage in Knaresborough in 1845 to (same page) Elizabeth Simpson.

Bradford Observer 27 February 1845
On Monday at the Parish Church, Knaresbro', Mr Thomas Robinson of Stockton on Tees to Elizabeth, 2nd daughter of Mr T Simpson, hairdresser, of the former place.

Oh, forgot to mention that Stockton is my home town so I might be able to help with any location questions. St Thomas is the parish church on the High Street, Holy Trinity was just off the opposite end of the High Street but suffered a fire and is now a ruins (but I think its beautiful).

Hi Jomot, that's great, thank you and well done. I was going crazy, my mind was spinning Your find has partly answered my doubts that the children born before Isobel/Isabella belonged to Elizabeth Simpson. It is possible Thomas was married twice. Groundhopper needs the marriage certificate for the 1845 marriage unless it's available somewhere online.

[almach]

Hi Jomot, that's great, thank you and well done. I was going crazy, my mind was spinning Your find has partly answered my doubts that the children born before Isobel/Isabella belonged to Elizabeth Simpson. It is possible Thomas was married twice. Groundhopper needs the marriage certificate for the 1845 marriage unless it's available somewhere online.

It is online Both of full age.
Feb. 10th, 1845, Church of Knaresborough

As suspected Thomas was a widower, his father is William a shoemaker.
Elizabeth a spinster, father Thomas a hairdresser.
Witnesses Thomas Simpson and Ann Robinson

[almach]

A Thomas Simpson married Elizabeth Outhwaite 28 Nov 1808, Knaresborough, St John the Baptist
Witnesses, William Outhwaite and Mary Fisher.

Interestingly John and Thomas Outhwaite were boarding with Thomas and Elizabeth Robinson in 1861.

1841, Swane Market Or Fincal Street Knaresborough
Thos Simpson a hairdresser 55, Eliz 60, Wm and Thos both hairdressers age 20

[almach]

This could be Thomas' first marriage, looks promising.

Thomas Robinson and Elizabeth Winteringham were married with consent of parents.
8 May 1830, Farnham, Yorkshire, (Farnham is in Knaresborough district)

[almach]

There is a Thomas Simpson son of William baptised 24 Oct 1811, born 19 Jul 1811 at St Peter's Leeds, they were living Hunslet.