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  1. #1
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    Default James Alfred Roberts

    Hi Guys, need a bit of help with this James Alfred Roberts born Hereford married Alice Laura Lucas in 1921 in Hereford, we have all the info on the children and the 1st 3 born are in Hereford too,only thing we can't find is date of birth for James and who his parents are! We are 90% sure he died in Liverpool in 1959 so his granddaughter tells us, or around that time, he's on Liverpool census in an address we know they lived in (Glassonby Crescent) in 1950 but not in 1960 so this fits in timescale of grandaughter says! Now the name Farrell or o Farrell is possibly a name associated to James, the grandaughter seems to think James may have changed his name from Farrell or O Farrell possibly! I've found all the info on Alice Lucas side it's just James is causing bother!
    Hope you guys can help with this tough one
    Thanks
    Toffeetower

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    Quote Originally Posted by toffeetower View Post
    Hi Guys, need a bit of help with this James Alfred Roberts born Hereford married Alice Laura Lucas in 1921 in Hereford
    Have you got the marriage certificate, which should give James' age, and hopefully the name and occupation of his father? And if you haven't got it, why not?
    Order from the GRO https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

    we have all the info on the children and the 1st 3 born are in Hereford too,
    Did any of the children die before 1991, and if so, have you looked for them in the 1939 Register?
    Even if they died since 1991 their entry may still be opened (especially on FMP).
    only thing we can't find is date of birth for James and who his parents are! We are 90% sure he died in Liverpool in 1959 so his granddaughter tells us, or around that time
    Do you have supporting evidence from the GRO Index for the death in Liverpool? If so, what have you found?
    he's on Liverpool census in an address we know they lived in (Glassonby Crescent) in 1950 but not in 1960 so this fits in timescale of grandaughter says!
    Do you mean electoral roll? There was no census in the UK in 1950, and the 1951 census won't be available to the public till at least 2052.
    Now the name Farrell or o Farrell is possibly a name associated to James, the grandaughter seems to think James may have changed his name from Farrell or O Farrell possibly! I've found all the info on Alice Lucas side it's just James is causing bother!
    Hope you guys can help with this tough one. Thanks.
    Toffeetower
    If you know about Alice, have you looked for her in the 1939 Register? Do you have a birthdate for her? When and where did she die? Did she die as an O'Farrell or a Roberts?

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    Default

    Hi Pam, I haven't wedding cert as its not my family tree I'm just searching for a friend, In the 1939 census Alice is Roberts with kids Cyril,Reginald and Albert, there are names blanked out so I think one of them maybe James! Sorry yes on the electrol roll of 1950 1955 James is there but not in 1960, I couldn't find a death for James Roberts Liverpool in 1959 unless I missed one! Could be 1957 58 59 as well as the grandaughter was about 2 or 3 when he died and she was born 1955! Alice didn't die O'Farrell she died Roberts in Liverpool in 1973 this was confirmed by grandaughter! Alice was born 1892 too! Thanks again
    Toffee

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    1939 Register
    68 Glassonby Crescent, Liverpool C.B., Lancashire

    Alice L Roberts 14 Aug 1892 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
    Cyril R Roberts 30 May 1920 Male Motor Transport ( Building Heavy Worker Single
    Albert E Roberts 17 Jun 1922 Male Fitter Labourer Single
    Reginald J Roberts 31 Dec 1923 Male Assistant Office Clerk ( Building ) Single

    There are 4 “hidden” records. These include the first family member and the last three. The original document is quite blurry, and I would guess that the transcribers have misread his date of birth, which is why his record is closed. I doubt that anyone else is the first family member with Alice being described as married.

    However, what you can see from this is that Cyril was born before the marriage date of 1921 that you have cited.

    I think that your friend should invest in the marriage certificate - Herford Dec quarter 1921 Vol 6A Page 1195 to see what it says. Cyril's birth is clearly registered as Roberts, with his mother's maiden name as Lucas according to the birth index, so they must have known one another for a long time before they married.

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    Yes Alice is Alice Laura Lucas before marriage to James! I'm going to suggest to the grandaughter to get the marriage cert, but just noticed something strange on James and Alice's son Albert Edward Roberts birth cert James name is James Arthur Roberts but on Alberts wedding cert James name is James Alfred Roberts! I'm just wondering if this is the name change the family are thinking of and the O'Farrells are something else?

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    It could be.

    Sometimes the informant makes a genuine mistake; after Arthur and Albert are not so different if you trying to remember someone's middle name.

    In terms of his death certificate there are various James in the index which could be him - no miďdle name.

    Does your friend know where they are buried? If they are buried together the headstone could give a lot of information.

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    There is some confusion about his second name is he Alfred or Arthur as someone on Ancestry has him down as so you deffo need to get copy of marriage cert.

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    Cyril's birth is clearly registered as Roberts, with his mother's maiden name as Lucas according to the birth index, so they must have known one another for a long time before they married.
    I don't think it's as clear as you suggest.

    See FreeBMD. The birth was registered in 1920 as Cyril R LUCAS with mother's maiden name LUCAS.

    The name Cyril R ROBERTS has been added in manuscript with the note "See S'34". Sure enough, there is an entry for Cyril R Roberts in Sep 1934

    Entries like this usually mean that there was no father's name entered on the original registration and the birth was subsequently re-registered in 1934 in order to make Cyril legitimate.

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    That's me on Ancestry hahaha!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey View Post
    I don't think it's as clear as you suggest.

    See FreeBMD. The birth was registered in 1920 as Cyril R LUCAS with mother's maiden name LUCAS.

    The name Cyril R ROBERTS has been added in manuscript with the note "See S'34". Sure enough, there is an entry for Cyril R Roberts in Sep 1934

    Entries like this usually mean that there was no father's name entered on the original registration and the birth was subsequently re-registered in 1934 in order to make Cyril legitimate.
    Thanks Peter

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