Grandmother's family from Liverpool

[Progatron]

Hello everyone! I'm trying to track down any information on my grandmother Jessie Lawson (b. 5 Aug 1899 Liverpool, d. 8 May 2002 Newmarket, Ontario, Canada) particularly her marriage (to Alexander Kennedy, Toronto 1891-1976) or any info on her younger siblings Margaret (1901) and Arthur Lawson (1905). These were the three children of Arthur Lawson (1873-1908 Liverpool) and Annie McKay (1875-1925 Liverpool).

Annie McKay remarried Charles Howard (1872-1947 Liverpool) and had John and Alexander Howard (and Jean, who died as an infant). This was also Charles' second marriage, the first being to Lucy Carroll, which I believe resulted in one son (Charles Jr).

Any information will be greatly appreciated! (I have info on Jessie and Alex's 13 children already.)

Cheers to all.

[Pam Downes]

Hello Progatron,

Welcome to British-Genealogy.

You seem to already have most of the details we're usually asked to find, apart from possibly the marriage certificate of Jessie and Alexander, so could you be a little more specific about the extra information you're looking for? Were all of their children born in Canada, therefore making it likely that J & A married in Canada? If so, I would have thought that you were better placed (and more informed about where to look for local records) than some of us in the UK, Australia, or New Zealand.

If you think they might have married in England, when was their first child born, and have you checked emigration/immigration records for when J & A went to Canada?

Pam

[Pam Downes]

As usual, I'm possibly answering my own question(s).

There's a marriage of a Jessie Lawson and an Alexander R Kennedy, September quarter 1918, West Derby registration district. Volume number 8b page number 627. They married at St Lawrence's, Kirkdale, but the marriage certificate is not online.
It can be ordered from
https://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
just search the marriage index, and then follow the links.

Or from the GRO which covers all registration districts in England and Wales, using the reference details I quoted. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Once you've registered, click on the 'place an order' link from the menu on the right-hand side.

West Derby registration district is part of Liverpool, and it's where Jessie and family were living in 1901 and 1911.
1901 census, census reference RG13/3454 folio 12 page 15
Bardsay Road, civil parish of Walton on the Hill,
Arthur Lawson, 40, boilermaker, born Hull Yorkshire
Annie, wife, 25,
Jessie, daur, 1
Margaret, daur, 1 month
Annie and children born Liverpool.

1911 census, census reference RG14/22458 SN84
Hogarth Road, Kirkdale
Charles Howard, 39, dock labourer,, London
Annie, 35, Seacombe, Cheshire
Charles, son, 14, errand boy
Margaret Lawson, step daur, 10
Arthur W Lawson, stepson, 6
John Howard, son, 3 momnths
All children born Liverpool

Poor Jessie was in the Liverpool Blue Coat Hospital, Church Road, Wavertree, in 1911.
Census reference RG14/22693 SN9999
Jessie Lawson, 11, inmate, born Liverpool

Pam

[Pam Downes]

There's a possibiility that Margaret, younger sister of Jessie, married an Alfred Pierard, March quarter 1919 at St Mary's Wavertree. They had a son, Arthur W Pierard, birth registered March quarter 1920. Both events West Derby registration district. But I can find no further details for any of them.

ADDED: Possibly not. According to a record on FMP, Margaret's father was George Lawson, and she was 23 (i.e.born 1896).

DOUBLE ADDED: Definitely not. Have now seen the PR on FMP, and father George is a weighing machine inspector and deceased.

There is a marriage of an Arthur William Lawson to an Elsie May Wigley 7 October 1937 at St Saviour Everton. Arthur's father is George, a mechanic. 1911 census George Lawson, widower, 43, weighing machine fitter, with four children, two of whom are Margaret aged 15 and Arthur William, aged 4.Living Hoole, Chester. Census reference RG14/21883 SN182.

Pam

[Progatron]

Hi Pam, thanks so much for your effort, it is greatly appreciated! Yes, I do have quite a bit of information already, I'm just trying to expand on that if possible. Your marriage info is correct, and I am about to look into that website to possibly order the certificate. 19 Sep 1918 in Kirkdale. She moved to Toronto (where my grandfather Alex was from - he met Jessie in the UK from his involvement in WW I) in either late 1919 or early 1920. She was pregnant with my aunt Corina (her first child), and she told my Mom how terribly seasick she was on the way over. I was completely unaware of her being in the Blue Coat hospital at age 11, I will look into that.

As for her brother Arthur William Lawson, I know nothing about him apart from being born in approximately 1905, most likely in the same place as Jessie and Margaret. Margaret also moved to Toronto, although I don't know when, and married William Robert James Hunt (1899-1962). I know of one daughter Jean Hunt, perhaps there were others? I believe Jessie, Margaret and Arthur were all the children of Arthur Lawson (Sr.)

It has proved difficult at times for me, being over here in Canada, to research common names from that area such as Lawson and Howard, so this help is very much appreciated, I assure you!

[Megan Roberts]

Pam has found Arthur and Annie in the 1901 Census. That gives him a middle initial of W., and in the census I have looked at it says his age was 28 rather than 40.

An Arthur William Lawson’s birth was registered in the January quarter of 1873 in the Sculcoates registration district (which fits with Hull) – Vol 9D Page 152, and his mother’s maiden name was Albiston.

James Lawson married either Mary Ann Albiston or Eliza Lucy Knight (we can make a good guess that it’s the former!), in the July quarter of 1867 in Liverpool. Volume 8B Page 194.

I think that the occupation of boilermaker might indicate a connection with the sea in this instance, as both Hull and Liverpool would have been busy working ports at this time.

In the 1881 census I think that the family was living at 5 Copperfield Street, Toxteth Park (Liverpool), although it does say that Arthur was born in Liverpool. RG11 / Piece 3641 / Folio 19 / Page 34. James is a boilermaker.

Arthur William Lawson and Annie Hamilton McKay married in the April quarter of 1898 in the West Derby registration district. Volume 8B Page 996.

With regard to Jesse’s brother he was born Arthur William (West Derby Jan Qtr 1905 Vol 8b Page 337) – however, the addition of William does not really help as there are a lot of Arthur William Lawsons, including one in Liverpool who may have been a cousin. I think that is the one that married in Everton in 1937. You will need to research this yourself but I have an inkling that James Lawson’s father was called William.

Unfortunately Margaret did not have any middle name, and Lawson is not a rare surname.

[Progatron]

Thank you Megan, I have made the correction to my tree regarding James Lawson's marriage to Mary Ann Albiston (I had July 1864, it is in fact July 1867 - their first child was born that December... how scandalous!)

I have occasionally found inconsistencies with censuses, as I'm sure others here have from time to time. The same families listed ten years apart with slightly different birth dates or locations, which I assume is either human error on the part of the census-taker or even the people themselves.

I don't believe Margaret OR Jessie had middle names, that I've ever heard (I knew both of them, but never met Arthur or even knew of his existence as a child).

As for James Lawson, I have "Jonathan Lawson b. 1816 Runcorn, Cheshire" jotted down, but I haven't verified or explored that as yet.

[Pam Downes]

Well, Margaret moving to Toronto would explain why I couldn't find anything 'likely' for her over here, though I had already wondered if she (and Arthur) had followed Jessie to Canada.

When the GRO first published its Index to BMD when civil registration began in England and Wales in July 1837 it omitted the maiden names of mothers in the birth registrations, as well as age at death for deaths.
In recent years, that original index has been updated on the GRO's own website.
Using the link I gave you in post #2, after you've signed in, you should get a page which gives options such as place an order, search the GRO Indexes, etc.
Click the search indexes. You can only search for births 1837-1919 and deaths 1837-1857, and 1983-2019/2020, and only for two years either side of a particular year at a time (so it would take a while to find thirteen children!) but it is very useful. No mother's maiden name usually means an illegitimate birth. Once you've found a particular entry then you can order a certificate with only a few extra clicks. With the 'historic' entries you can order a PDF copy of the certificate. It's black-and-white, and uncertified, but it is four pounds cheaper than the full colour and certified copy. All you have to do is select PDF copy. It arrives via an email link.
In your case, you are safe to search using McKay as mother's maiden surname, and West Derby as the registration district for females born 1900 +/- two years and males born 1904 +/- two years. Usually, we would advise to possibly use options such as alternative spelling and be flexible regarding registration districts.

The complete original GRO Index with mother's maiden names given with births from September quarter 1911, and ages at death from March quarter 1866, as well as all marriages to 2007 is available on Ancestry and Findmypast (FMP) which are subscription sites but which may be available for free at your local library. However for most events prior to 1983 there is the wonderful and amazing, free, FreeBMD. However, it is not yet complete.
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/
Click search.
Ha! just remembered that you can also search (via images) for any pages you think might be missing though it is a fiddly process (but free).
FreeBMD have now begun transcribing events 1984-1992.

Arthur and Annie married in either West Derby Register Office or a non-conformist church/chapel, so you won't find their marriage certificate online. It can be ordered through either the Lancashire BMD link I gave in post #2, or from the GRO using reference West Derby registration district volume number page 8b number 996.

Pam

[Progatron]

Outstanding Pam, thank you very much! I will be exploring the FreeBMD page today. I have also ordered grandma Jessie's marriage certificate from the government page you listed. Cost me $19 Canadian, that's not too bad IMO!

I do, of course, have everyone *below* Jessie on the tree, as I knew all of those aunts and uncles (my Mom's twelve siblings - well, eleven, since Mary died at five months).

Hopefully I did not place this query in the wrong forum (forgive my newbie status). I suppose it is not so much a 'brick wall' scenario as it is just wanting to know more than I've been able to find on my own. There are four of Jessie's children left (my mother is not one of them, sadly), but only one that I can still really talk to about these things, and she is the youngest sibling (76 now), who is of sound mind but does not know as much about the family as her much older siblings did.

[Progatron]

It's also of interest to me to continue researching the Howards, my grandma's half-brothers, who stayed in England, but whom she remained in contact with (one of them even came over here in 1999 for her 100th birthday celebration).

After Arthur Lawson died young, her mother Annie remarried Charles Howard and they had John and Alexander Howard together. These were my great uncles, and in speaking with each of their sons via e-mail, I've learned a small amount about them, but it's amazing how little some people know about their own families (Alexander's son was not even sure if his mother Jessica's maiden name was 'Cook' or 'Cooke', nor did he know her father's name, he only knows that he was a successful coal distributor from Liverpool). I think I've found her, but I'm not 100%: b. 9 Oct 1914 Liverpool, d. 9 Nov 1999 Reading, Berkshire. And possibly her father Robert (Cooke), b. 1880. But again, I am not the expert some of you are, so any assistance while I am doing my own research will be more than welcome.

As for John Howard, I have vague childhood memories of them coming to Canada and visiting grandma, and meeting him and his wife Doris (can't find her maiden name anywhere), but I've since learned that Doris was John's second wife, and not the mother of his son Jeffrey Howard. That was a woman named Fanny Swift, who he doesn't know much about, except that she died in 1957 in Liverpool. So I'm definitely interested in finding out more about both of those women.

I hope this is not all too confusing. It can get overwhelming sometimes, and it's like searching for a needle in a haystack.