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  1. #11
    David Benson
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    I can verify some of the details about W.A.Walsh and his son John.

    I lived in Dartford and went to Christ Church where he was the Vicar. I was baptised there in 1942 but he did not sign the register at that time. He must have become the Vicar a little later as I remember him when I was a small child. He did have a daughter, can't remember her name but you will be able to find it, and a younger son John. John did have some slight mental problems and he did leave home for New Zealand where he worked as a gardener as he had in Dartford. He died in N.Z. of drowning although I can't remember the exact detail. I know his family were badly affected by this. I don't remember the name of W.A's wife but she was a small woman and Vera does ring a bell. They lived in a Vicarage in Shepherds Lane Dartford, not far from the church. Upon retirement they moved to the Tonbridge area. and remember my father visiting them on one or more occasions. The Rev. W.A officiated at my wedding in 1969 so I have a picture of him somewhere on our photos. I'll try and dig out any other info to give more details for you.

  2. #12
    David Benson
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    In your 1st post you mention the birth of John as registered under the name of Waterman.
    Below is the entry that you link to and I think it's wrong on the top part of e entry. Read further and it gives the link to the 'real' birth entry.

    Name: Waterman
    Sex: Female
    Child: John P Walsh


    Other information in the record of John P Walsh
    from England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008

    Name:
    John P Walsh
    Event Type:Birth Registration
    Registration Quarter:Jul-Aug-Sep
    Registration Year:1944
    Registration District: Dartford
    Mother's Maiden Name:Waterman
    Volume:2A
    Page:1394
    Attached to:Vera Constance Waterman 1910–2002

  3. #13
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Benson View Post
    In your 1st post you mention the birth of John as registered under the name of Waterman.
    Below is the entry that you link to and I think it's wrong on the top part of e entry. Read further and it gives the link to the 'real' birth entry.

    Name: Waterman
    Sex: Female
    Child: John P Walsh


    Other information in the record of John P Walsh
    from England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008

    Name:
    John P Walsh
    Event Type:Birth Registration
    Registration Quarter:Jul-Aug-Sep
    Registration Year:1944
    Registration District: Dartford
    Mother's Maiden Name:Waterman
    Volume:2A
    Page:1394
    Attached to:Vera Constance Waterman 1910–2002
    David, please do not copy-and-paste from other sites, as it a breach of our T&Cs, as well as usually being a breach of the other site's copyright. I've amended your original entry. That information seems to have been posted by Ginny.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Benson View Post
    I can verify some of the details about W.A.Walsh and his son John.

    I lived in Dartford and went to Christ Church where he was the Vicar. I was baptised there in 1942 but he did not sign the register at that time. He must have become the Vicar a little later as I remember him when I was a small child. He did have a daughter, can't remember her name but you will be able to find it, and a younger son John. John did have some slight mental problems and he did leave home for New Zealand where he worked as a gardener as he had in Dartford. He died in N.Z. of drowning although I can't remember the exact detail. I know his family were badly affected by this. I don't remember the name of W.A's wife but she was a small woman and Vera does ring a bell. They lived in a Vicarage in Shepherds Lane Dartford, not far from the church. Upon retirement they moved to the Tonbridge area. and remember my father visiting them on one or more occasions. The Rev. W.A officiated at my wedding in 1969 so I have a picture of him somewhere on our photos. I'll try and dig out any other info to give more details for you.
    What a very small world we live in. I'm sure Ginny will be over moon to read your post.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  4. #14
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    Oh David you have made my year!! From what I have researched John's sister is/was born in 1942 as listed Alma or Pam (sorry forgot who). There are several indexes for Vera, one recording her birthdate as 1910 [1911 Census] and another as 1909 [BDM]
    BDM aren't sure of who Vera was married to as the records seem to have been damaged [note from the transcriber].

    I am very new to researching Genealogy, and its wildly different to my background in medical research. So to everyone who has posted with suggestions and information, I want to Thank You.

    You are All, Amazing, Lovely People

    Ginny
    Last edited by Kiwi_Walsh; 17-02-2020 at 7:47 PM. Reason: Grammatical errors, and listed living person in error, now corrected

  5. #15
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi_Walsh View Post
    Oh David you have made my year!! From what I have researched John's sister is/was born in 1942 as listed Alma or Pam (sorry forgot who). There are several indexes for Vera, one recording her birthdate as 1910 [1911 Census]
    Never regard the year of birth given in a census index as an accurate one.
    Say for instance you were born on 1 January 1907. Then on the census day of 2 April 1911 you would be 4, and in the household schedule your age should be written as 4, meaning your year of birth would show as 1907.
    However, if you had been born on 1 June 1907, you would still only be 3 on census day, therefore your of birth would say 1908 (11 minus 3) which would be wrong, This is why I think you will find that sometimes indexes say 'estimated year of birth'.
    'Estimated' also covers instances where adults are clearly telling lies (if they were 21 in 1901, they can hardly be only 26 in 1911 and also where they have that many children they can't remember how old they all are. Let alone remember that it's little George who's 16 and still living at home, and not Tommy who is 22 and married and living in the next town!
    and another as 1909 [BDM]
    I need to be slightly careful here as I don't know exactly what BDM you're referring to. (See also next paragraph.)
    We usually say 'the GRO Index', or possibly FreeBMD.
    FreeBMD is a free online transcription of the GRO Index from its beginning on 1 July 1837, and originally was planned to end with entries in the GRO Index up to 31 Dec 1983. It has now been extended to include records up to the end of 1992, but it is not yet complete.
    https://www.freebmd.org.uk/
    Even entries for the earlier years may still be awaiting transcription, so if you can't find an entry it's always best to check the Index as shown on one of the commercial sites. I always find Findmypast (FMP) better for this as Ancestry's sense of geography is somewhat lacking at times and they'll say something like Dartford registration district is in Oxfordshire.

    I've digressed slightly, but the GRO Index, which tells you the year, quarter, and the registration district in which an event took place is the one you regard as the accurate one, and is the one you should always enter in your notes,

    BDM aren't sure of who Vera was married to as the records seem to have been damaged [note from the transcriber]
    .
    Now comes the big question.
    Which BDM are you referring to? Where did you find that note from the transcriber?

    Surprisingly there are quite a lot of Vera Watermans around, five of them getting married between 1937 and 1943, though fortunately for us only one of them had C as a middle initial. There's also two other female Waterman marrying male Walsh between 1933 and 1941, so don't try adding children from those marriages into William and Vera's offspring.

    I am very new to researching Genealogy, and its wildly different to my background in medical research. So to everyone who has posted with suggestions and information, I want to Thank You.

    You are All, Amazing, Lovely People

    Ginny
    We were all new at some time, and belonging to this forum is our way of giving back the kindness and helpfulness shown to us back then.

    If you don't understand something we've said, then don't be afraid to ask us to clarify what we mean.

    A few hints.
    A baptism is not the same as a birth, nor is a burial the same as a death.
    A registration district (given in the GRO Index) is not the same as a place of birth. Some districts take their name from the main town in the district, but not always. Not only have the district names changed over the years, but also towns and villages have moved to other districts. If you use FreeBMD, click on the district name, and then follow the links you will come to a page which lists the places in that district, tells you the volume numbers used in various years, and if/when the district was abolished.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Never regard the year of birth given in a census index as an accurate one.
    Say for instance you were born on 1 January 1907. Then on the census day of 2 April 1911 you would be 4, and in the household schedule your age should be written as 4, meaning your year of birth would show as 1907.
    However, if you had been born on 1 June 1907, you would still only be 3 on census day, therefore your of birth would say 1908 (11 minus 3) which would be wrong, This is why I think you will find that sometimes indexes say 'estimated year of birth'.
    'Estimated' also covers instances where adults are clearly telling lies (if they were 21 in 1901, they can hardly be only 26 in 1911 and also where they have that many children they can't remember how old they all are. Let alone remember that it's little George who's 16 and still living at home, and not Tommy who is 22 and married and living in the next town!
    That makes complete sense now. I can see I am going to have to become less linear in my thinking, especially around census results when searching without a known DOB.

    I need to be slightly careful here as I don't know exactly what BDM you're referring to. (See also next paragraph.)
    We usually say 'the GRO Index', or possibly FreeBMD.
    FreeBMD is a free online transcription of the GRO Index from its beginning on 1 July 1837, and originally was planned to end with entries in the GRO Index up to 31 Dec 1983. It has now been extended to include records up to the end of 1992, but it is not yet complete.
    https://www.freebmd.org.uk/
    Even entries for the earlier years may still be awaiting transcription, so if you can't find an entry it's always best to check the Index as shown on one of the commercial sites. I always find Findmypast (FMP) better for this as Ancestry's sense of geography is somewhat lacking at times and they'll say something like Dartford registration district is in Oxfordshire.
    I look up in FreeBDM initially and then cross reference with
    I use FreeBDM UK to find whats available in the year/s I am looking for and National Archives for military records as another form of reference. Then I use Family Search.

    I've digressed slightly, but the GRO Index, which tells you the year, quarter, and the registration district in which an event took place is the one you regard as the accurate one, and is the one you should always enter in your notes,

    .
    Now comes the big question.
    Which BDM are you referring to? Where did you find that note from the transcriber?
    I found the index of both William A to Vera C and Vera C to William A, then in FamilySearch it came up with the transcribed Index stating that the records were damaged and William A could be a possible spouse as could Vera C.

    Surprisingly there are quite a lot of Vera Watermans around, five of them getting married between 1937 and 1943, though fortunately for us only one of them had C as a middle initial. There's also two other female Waterman marrying male Walsh between 1933 and 1941, so don't try adding children from those marriages into William and Vera's offspring.
    Yes I found alot of William Walsh marrying Watermans, it seems walsh and waterman are a common matching. Vera Constance.

    We were all new at some time, and belonging to this forum is our way of giving back the kindness and helpfulness shown to us back then.
    If you don't understand something we've said, then don't be afraid to ask us to clarify what we mean.

    A few hints.
    A baptism is not the same as a birth, nor is a burial the same as a death.
    A registration district (given in the GRO Index) is not the same as a place of birth. Some districts take their name from the main town in the district, but not always. Not only have the district names changed over the years, but also towns and villages have moved to other districts. If you use FreeBMD, click on the district name, and then follow the links you will come to a page which lists the places in that district, tells you the volume numbers used in various years, and if/when the district was abolished.

    Pam
    With FreeBDM searches I just select ALL DISTRICTS. It brings up alot of indexes but I just print them out and go through them one at a time. I use FamilySearch because its free, and I have no intention of tracing my entire family tree so going to the expense of subscribing to Ancestry or the others seems like a waste of money especially when I have a dog allergic to the world who needs meds and I have a limited income due to disability. FamilySearch would be a pain in the backside if I was doing my entire tree as it doesnt allow for parents not being married (the joys of a religious based genealogy service)

    Thank you Pam for all the information

    Ginny

  7. #17
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi_Walsh View Post
    That makes complete sense now. I can see I am going to have to become less linear in my thinking, especially around census results when searching without a known DOB.

    I look up in FreeBDM initially and then cross reference with
    I use FreeBDM UK to find whats available in the year/s I am looking for and National Archives for military records as another form of reference. Then I use Family Search.

    I found the index of both William A to Vera C and Vera C to William A, then in FamilySearch it came up with the transcribed Index stating that the records were damaged and William A could be a possible spouse as could Vera C.

    Yes I found alot of William Walsh marrying Watermans, it seems walsh and waterman are a common matching. Vera Constance.

    With FreeBDM searches I just select ALL DISTRICTS. It brings up alot of indexes but I just print them out and go through them one at a time. I use FamilySearch because its free, and I have no intention of tracing my entire family tree so going to the expense of subscribing to Ancestry or the others seems like a waste of money especially when I have a dog allergic to the world who needs meds and I have a limited income due to disability. FamilySearch would be a pain in the backside if I was doing my entire tree as it doesnt allow for parents not being married (the joys of a religious based genealogy service)

    Thank you Pam for all the information

    Ginny
    Re the bit in bold, however I search FamilySearch I cannot find a transcribed index which says anything about the record being damaged. Precisely what search terms did you enter, and what record set does the result refer to?

    Your local library may have free access to either//or/and Ancestry and FMP. Alternatively, you can take out a 14-day free trial, but you need to make sure you tick/untick (can't remember which!) the 'auto-renew' button otherwise your bank account will get a big shock. You also need to remember to tell the company that you are cancelling your sub. If you do go the free trial route, don't take a trial out on both sites at the same time, and also it's best to wait until you've got quite a few queries you want to look up. Waste of a trial if you only use it to look up one thing.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  8. #18
    David Benson
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    Pam,
    I have now remembered the daughters name and have sent her details and 2 photos of W A directly to Ginny. Also added more of my recollections of the Revd. W A Walsh and family.
    Perhaps others may have known him and the family and can contribute more details.

    David

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Benson View Post
    Pam,
    I have now remembered the daughters name and have sent her details and 2 photos of W A directly to Ginny. Also added more of my recollections of the Revd. W A Walsh and family.
    Perhaps others may have known him and the family and can contribute more details.

    David
    That's very kind of you, David. I'm sure Ginny will be delighted and most grateful.
    Alma

  10. #20
    David Benson
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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    Using the birth date as a guide for John Walsh there is a birth of a William A Walsh registration district June 1/4 1912 registration district York vol 9d page 69 mother's maiden name Murray. 1900- 1912 in all of England and Wales there is only one marriage registration of a Murray to a Walsh and that is in the registration district of Southwark Dec 1/4 1912. Catherine Murray married William F Walsh.
    Christina
    Just a quick look om Free BMD I find there are other Walsh's marrying a Murray.
    The most likely one is Dec Qtr. 1911 - Arthur W Walsh & possibly Jean F Murray in York. It would seem to tie in with the birth of William A Walsh the following year in York. It would need a certificate as proof though. The names also seem to link in that William Arthur b1912 would have a father Arthur W(illiam).

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