My ancestor is Richard May (1828-1888) born Portleven, married Gertrude Trenerry, died Melbourne. I have been working on this for years, thought I had it sorted and then uncovered further information that's thrown me off entirely. I am interested in Richard's siblings. Parents were John May (1784-1839) and Maria or Mary Johns (1791-1837). Apart from Richard there were 8 children - Francis Johns May, John Thomas May, Mary Ann May, Joseph May, William May, Thomas May, Samuel May & Francis Samuel May. John May was a miner and they moved around quite a bit. I am interested in William May, born 6 Dec 1823, St Allen (Bible Christian so exact birth dates)....is he the deceased in the OPC who died in the Cornwall Infirmary 1852 (coroner's inquiry) or did he marry Elizabeth Yeoman in 1845, live in St Blazey and have 3 children? Ages of these 2 alternative Williams seem to be the same and I have just not been able to differentiate them. I can't find a death for the married William. Also, his sister Mary Ann b.1819 - I cannot locate a death. And finally his children - Elizabeth Jane (1847-), Maria (1847-)and William (1850-)- where did they go? Last seen on 1871 census. The children of another brother migrated to Nebraska so that could be a possibility? Fresh eyes on this would be greatly appreciated! ;-)
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04-02-2020, 5:31 AM #1HeatherGuest
Hitting that wall with Mays/Johns/Yeoman
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04-02-2020, 6:21 AM #2
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What additional information do you have about this death? Do you have a copy of the death certificate, and if so, what are the details on it regarding date of death, age at death, occupation, and who registered the death?
or did he marry Elizabeth Yeoman in 1845, live in St Blazey and have 3 children?
Census reference HO107/1906 folio 207 page 20
William MAY, 27, copper miner, born Gwennap
Elizabeth, wife,26, St Austell
Elizabeth, daur, St Blazey
Maria, daur 3, St Blazey
William, son, 7 months, St Blazey
Does this William's birthplace of Gwennap match that of your William?
Ages of these 2 alternative Williams seem to be the same and I have just not been able to differentiate them.
I can't find a death for the married William. Also, his sister Mary Ann b.1819 - I cannot locate a death. And finally his children - Elizabeth Jane (1847-), Maria (1847-)and William (1850-)- where did they go? Last seen on 1871 census. The children of another brother migrated to Nebraska so that could be a possibility? Fresh eyes on this would be greatly appreciated! ;-)
PamVulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”
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04-02-2020, 8:35 AM #3HeatherGuest
On the burials register: William May died in 1852 at the age of 29. Residence was the Cornwall Infirmary, Coroner's Inquiry. No occupation stated.St Austell.
1841 census:
1. William May, St Austell, sailor aged 20. Living with Fanny Johns (40) and Richard Johns (20)
(Johns is his mother's name and his parents are both dead by this stage)
2. William May, St Blazey, aged 15 (initials for occupation, don't know what they mean) living with:
Mary May 20
Philip Boswathricock 30
Richd Prin 15
Willm May 15
Thos Scoler 15
Jas Yeoman 12
The birth record I have says St Allen. The Truro Bible Christian Circuit covered Truro, St Clement, Kenwyn, St Allen, Kea, Gwennap, Grampound, Perranzabuloe, Probus, Creed, St Agnes, Tregony, Ladock, Zelah and Goonhavern, in Cornwall. Another census return says he was born in Kenwyn.
The second William is I believe the one who married Elizabeth Yeoman and I have them in the 1851, 1861, 1871 censuses. I can't find the first one in the 1851 census.
1861 census:
Name: William May
Age: 37
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth May
Where born: Kenwin, Cornwall, England
Civil Parish: St Blazey
Ecclesiastical parish: Par
Piece: 1546
Folio: 138
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
William May 37
Elizabeth May 36
Elizabeth J May 15
William May 10
1871 Census:
Name: William May
Age: 47
Relation: Head
Where born: Gwennap Cornwall England
Civil Parish: St Blazey
Ecclesiastical parish: Par
Town: Edgecombe Row
Piece: 2261
Folio: 28
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
William May 47
Elizabeth May 46
William May 20
Elizabeth A Reed 12
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04-02-2020, 10:21 AM #4
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William May, St Blazey, aged 15 (initials for occupation, don't know what they mean) l
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04-02-2020, 10:41 AM #5
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A burials register is not the same as a death certificate, and (being super critical) that entry is almost useless because it gives neither a place nor date of burial.
A death certificate will (usually) give a place and date of death, name, age at death, cause of death, occupation, and who registered the death.
1841 census:
1. William May, St Austell, sailor aged 20. Living with Fanny Johns (40) and Richard Johns (20)
(Johns is his mother's name and his parents are both dead by this stage)
Ages in the 1841 census of people older than 15 were supposed to be rounded-down to the nearest five. So someone aged 20 could be any age between 20 and 24.
Looking at the way the names Thomas and Sarah are written on the opposite census page, and the occupation of sawyer on the same page as William are written, I think Wiliam's occupation says tailor. However this not rule out the possibility of the enumerator mistranscibing sailor to tailor on the census return.
M.S. and F.S. mean male, and female, servant.
Fanny Johns is not part of William and Richard's household. She's living with the previous family.
2. William May, St Blazey, aged 15 (initials for occupation, don't know what they mean) living with:
Mary May 20
Philip Boswathricock 30
Richd Prin 15
Willm May 15
Thos Scoler 15
Jas Yeoman 12
Interestingly, if you look at page 14 living next door is an Elizabeth Yeoman, aged 15.
Look a further few lines above Elizabeth and check out other Yeomans, and also their address.
Check out the address for Yeoman baptisms in St Blazey 1815-1835.
The marriage entry in the parish register for St Blazey (image 120 of 516 on FamilySearch in the England, Cornwall Parish Registers, 1538-2010 dataset unfortunately says that Elizabeth's father as Elizabeth Yeoman, labourer.
William's father is John, a miner.
The birth record I have says St Allen. The Truro Bible Christian Circuit covered Truro, St Clement, Kenwyn, St Allen, Kea, Gwennap, Grampound, Perranzabuloe, Probus, Creed, St Agnes, Tregony, Ladock, Zelah and Goonhavern, in Cornwall. Another census return says he was born in Kenwyn.
The second William is I believe the one who married Elizabeth Yeoman and I have them in the 1851, 1861, 1871 censuses. I can't find the first one in the 1851 census.[
1861 census:
Name: William May
Age: 37
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth May
Where born: Kenwin, Cornwall, England
Civil Parish: St Blazey
Ecclesiastical parish: Par
Piece: 1546
Folio: 138
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
William May 37
Elizabeth May 36
Elizabeth J May 15
William May 10
1871 Census:
Name: William May
Age: 47
Relation: Head
Where born: Gwennap Cornwall England
Civil Parish: St Blazey
Ecclesiastical parish: Par
Town: Edgecombe Row
Piece: 2261
Folio: 28
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
William May 47
Elizabeth May 46
William May 20
Elizabeth A Reed 12
It's much easier for people who are trying to help with a query if you write out the census details in the way I've written them out. That way we know for example where the children of William and Elizabeth were born, and helps when doing further searches for them.
PamVulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”
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04-02-2020, 11:04 AM #6HeatherGuest
Yes, the burials register has not been helpful which is why I have asked for assistance. How do you get a death certificate if it isn't on Cornish OPC database?
Yes I asked the OPC about that and that is what is written on the register.
The second William definitely married Elizabeth, my question is, which William is mine?
I copied and pasted because it gives the direct reference making it easier to find the exact page but happy to delete. There is no copyright on the censuses.
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04-02-2020, 3:48 PM #7
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Since the introduction of civil registration on 1 July 1837, births, marriages, and deaths have been registered with the GRO (General Register Office)
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Once you've registered and signed in, you should get
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...cates/menu.asp
Select 'search the indexes'.
For what were previously regarded as 'historical records' they record details missing from the earlier GRO Index, namely mother's maiden name in births up to 1912, and ages at death up to 1866. FMP, Ancestry, and FreeBMD all use the original GRO Index. For births up to 1919, and deaths up to 1957 you can select an option to order a black-and-white PDF copy of the certificate for seven pounds as opposed to a full-colour certified copy for eleven pounds.
Although as I don't think this is your William, it might be better to save your money.
Yes I asked the OPC about that and that is what is written on the register.
The second William definitely married Elizabeth, my question is, which William is mine?
Therefore, if this is your William, he can't be the one who died in 1852, because this one is alive in not only 1861 but also 1871.
I copied and pasted because it gives the direct reference making it easier to find the exact page but happy to delete. There is no copyright on the censuses.
If you notice, I did not the delete the details as regards the 'essential' information for finding the page. What I did delete was the 'unnecessary stuff' such as registration district, county, supposed year of birth, etc.
There is no copyright as regards you transcribing what is written in a census. What is copyright is how that information is presented. So when you do copy-and-paste from a (usually) commercial site, though could also be non-commercial such as FamilySearch, you are breaching their copyright.
PamVulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”
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05-02-2020, 12:22 AM #8HeatherGuest
Yes, thank you for the reminder - I have registered with them before and have ordered the certificate just to be sure.
The OPC did send me a digital image and it definitely said 'Elizabeth' for the bride's name. I also viewed it on Familysearch so whilst it was odd, (and unhelpful for research purposes) it wasn't something I was seeking assistance on.
I do believe you are right but the burial record for the first William is what is throwing me off because his age at death corresponds with the birth date of 1823. It may be that I just haven't found the correct census return for this William. Hopefully the death certificate will clear this up. Apparently it will take a week to get a PDF so I gather these records have not been digitised?
Ok, I've taken this on notice and won't do it again.
I understand, but copying public domain information in rich text format without copying anything identifiable or unique to a particular website including formatting, logos etc. is not a breach of copyright. Copy-and-paste is a great time saving device I see no need to re-transcribe census material where it isn't necessary. We may just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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