Thomas Watson, Howden/Kilpin, Yorkshire

[Sandra Simmomds]

I am trying to identify my 2 times great grandfather Thomas Watson. My great grandfather, also called Thomas,was born on 15 May 1870 (confirmed in 1939 Register) in Kilpin Pyke in Yorkshire. He married his first wife in 1892, at which time his father was noted as Thomas Watson, Chemical Worker. Having been widowed, he married again in 1896, father Thomas Watson (deceased), Foreman in Chemical Works. I believe Thomas Watson the elder was born in 1840, based on 1841 census, but the only Thomas Watson I can find with the same year and place of birth is described as a sailor in the 1871 census and a ship’s captain in 1881. Other trees suggest he died in 1884, but he wasn’t described as deceased on his son’s marriage register in 1892. There were numerous Watson families in the area at the time with similarly aged and named children. How do I get confirmation which one is the right one? A change from ship’s captain to chemical worker seems odd. Thank you!

[Megan Roberts]

You don’t say whether or not you have found Thomas Watson born 1870 in any census. If you have it might help us if you could give us some references for those censuses, because as I am sure you already know there were hundreds of Thomas Watsons born in Yorkshire in 1870.

I know that you have found him on the 1939 register, but I think that it would help your search to obtain a copy of his birth certificate, because this would not only give you more information about his father, but it would tell you where he was born and give you information about his mother. You could apply to the GRO at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates, and on the on the basis that you know his date of birth.

The way that you would do this would be to tick the appropriate boxes for an England and Wales birth certificate and enter the year 1870. You then tick the box which says “I want GRO to search for the registration and will provide details to identify it”. You fill in his name and date of birth. Place of birth; if you are sure of the registration district give that, and only that. Otherwise limit it as much as possible, because they might reject your application if they can’t match something you put down.

The cost of £14 is more that the normal price of £11 because they are doing a search. So if you think that you know the district and therefore ca n work the GRO references you avoid doing the search and go for the cheaper price.

[christanel]

On the GRO index
THOMAS WATSON mother's maiden name NUTBROWN
GRO Reference: 1870 June Quarter in HOWDEN Vol 9d Page 91

Kilpin is in the registration district of Howden so this looks like your Thomas' birth registration

Marriages on the same page FreeBMD
June 1/4 1863 Registration district Howden vol 9d page 158 Thomas Watson and Mary Ann Nutbrown

1871 census Piece 4764 Folio 33 Page 12
Shelton Rd Kilpin
Thomas Watson 30 Sailor born Kilpin Pike
Mary Watson 30 Howden
James Watson 6 Howden
Hannah Watson 4 Kilpin Pike
Thomas Watson 10 months born Kilpin Pike

Purchasing Thomas 1870 birth certificate from the GRO index site would give the father's occupation at the time of his son's birth. There is only one other birth reg in June 1/4 1870 and that is in the Sculcoats reg dist which does not include Kilpin.

Christina

Just seen Megan's post which is very informative and helpful with the links to the sites you need. Thanks Megan

[christanel]

In the 1881 censusRG11 Piece 3242 Folio 47 Page 59 the above Thomas is a sailor, Master, as per the 1871 census and son Thomas age 10 is with him as mate, both born Howden Dyke. Their boat is the George Herbert and is at St Swithins Lincoln.
Christina

[christanel]

WATSON, JAMES mmn NUTBROWN
GRO Reference 1864 Dec1/4 in HOWDEN Vol 9D Page 82

WATSON, HANNAH mmn NUTBROWNE
GRO Reference: 1867 Sept 1/4 in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 70

WATSON, DINAH mmn NUTBROWN
GRO Reference: 1872 Sept 1/4 in HOWDEN Volume 9D Page 81

WATSON, MARY ANN mmn NUTBROWN
GRO Reference: 1874 Sept 1/4 in HOWDEN Vol 9D Page 90

WATSON, WILLIAM mmn RUTBROWN
GRO Reference: 1878 Dec 1/4 in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 83

WATSON, GEORGE mmn NUTBROWN
GRO Reference: 1880 Dec 1/4 in HOWDEN Vol9D Page 85

WATSON, JOHN mmn NUTBROWN
GRO Reference: 1884 March 1/4 in HOWDEN Vol 9D Page 90

Note the transcription errors of the Nutbrown maiden name for Hannah and Willim. If you order certificates always use the spellings given on the transcriptions even though not correct or the GRO will tell you they don't have the certificate and give you a refund.

Thomas and son Thomas were on the boat in 1881 but I haven't yet found where Mary Ann and the other children are.
In 1891 Mary, Thomas, Mary, William, George and John are together in Kilpin and Mary is a widow. So the death of Thomas Watson reg dist. Howden age 43 in Sept 1/4 1884 is a very likely prospect. It is not always recorded on marriage certificates when a parent is deceased, It depends if the question is asked directly instead of waiting for the information to be volunteered.
Christina

[Pam Downes]

I am trying to identify my 2 times great grandfather Thomas Watson. My great grandfather, also called Thomas,was born on 15 May 1870 (confirmed in 1939 Register) in Kilpin Pyke in Yorkshire. He married his first wife in 1892, at which time his father was noted as Thomas Watson, Chemical Worker. Having been widowed, he married again in 1896, father Thomas Watson (deceased), Foreman in Chemical Works. I believe Thomas Watson the elder was born in 1840, based on 1841 census, but the only Thomas Watson I can find with the same year and place of birth is described as a sailor in the 1871 census and a ship’s captain in 1881. Other trees suggest he died in 1884, but he wasn’t described as deceased on his son’s marriage register in 1892. There were numerous Watson families in the area at the time with similarly aged and named children. How do I get confirmation which one is the right one? A change from ship’s captain to chemical worker seems odd. Thank you!

By the amazing luck I have found something which makes Thomas senior as a chemical worker highly likely.
I was looking for Mary (his wife) in the 1881 census, and it's listing the people living in Kilpin Road, Kilpin, and halfway down the page it says 'Chemical manure works', in much the same way it would say 'St Anne's church' or 'The library'. Census reference RG11/4737 folio 117 page 8. Mary and some children are a few lines further down the page.

Think it might be a bit of a push to call Thomas senior a sailor in 1881. He's more like a boatman, because as Sandra knows Lincoln is not on the coast.

ADDED: While I was slowly typing, Christina found the reason I couldn't find Thomas senior in the 1891 census. He'd died.

Pam

[almach]

Thomas and son Thomas were on th boat in 1881 but I haven't yet found where Mary Ann and the other children are.

They are here, Christina.
RG11; Piece: 4737; Folio: 117; Page: 8; Mary 38, Dinah 8, Mary 6, William 2 and George 5 months.

WATSON, DINAH, MMN NUTBROWN
GRO Reference: 1872 S Quarter in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 81

Interestingly there's a Watson family next door the head of family is Thomas 34, widower, master of a barge, George 7, Thomas 6, James 3, Mary J 2, and Sarah E 6months

[almach]

Ooops, sorry Pam, I now see you had already posted the census ref for 1881.

[almach]

Mary Ann appears to remarry in Howden 0ct - Dec 1893, vol 9d page 198.
Mary Watson/Walter George Scarrow.

1901, RG13; Piece: 4458; Folio: 101; Page: 13
Mary Scarrow 59, married, George Watson 29, John Watson 17.

1911, Woodbine Cottage Howden Dyke, RG14; Piece: 28520
Mary Scarrow 69, married, John Watson 27

[almach]

Mary Scarrow 59, married, George Watson 29, John Watson 17.

I hit the wrong key! George Watson was 20