Thomas Watson, Howden/Kilpin, Yorkshire

[almach]

I can't find a probable Walter George Scarrow on census returns.

A likely death reg for Mary Ann

Mary A Scarrow age 82, Jul - Sept 1928 Howden, vol 9d page 80.

[almach]

I see your great grandfather Thomas Watson moved to Leeds and in 1901 his brother William is living with Thomas, his second wife Laura, and their children. By 1911 Thomas is married to Martha Barber, they married 1909 and it seems it was a civil marriage therefore only the marriage index is online. However, brother William married Lily Tighe in 1903 at Bethel Chapel Leeds his father is entered on the cert as Thomas Watson (deceased) a sailor. William gave his address as 18 Rylstone street which is the same address he and Thomas and family were in 1901.

[Sandra Simmomds]

I see your great grandfather Thomas Watson moved to Leeds and in 1901 his brother William is living with Thomas, his second wife Laura, and their children. By 1911 Thomas is married to Martha Barber, they married 1909 and it seems it was a civil marriage therefore only the marriage index is online. However, brother William married Lily Tighe in 1903 at Bethel Chapel Leeds his father is entered on the cert as Thomas Watson (deceased) a sailor. William gave his address as 18 Rylstone street which is the same address he and Thomas and family were in 1901.

Thank you so much for all your replies (can everybody who has replied see the response?).
You have all confirmed what I half thought. The big issues I had were the uncertainty over date of death and the change of occupation, but, knowing the fact he was deceased wouldn’t necessarily be on great grandad’s wedding cert was key.

My facts:
Birth 1840 Howden Jul-Sep ref 23 54
Census 1841 Thomas Walson, parents William (Mariner) and Hannah
Census 1851 Now with sisters Mary and Ann
Census 1861 William master of Victoria at Spalding
Census 1861 Hannah in Kilpin, Thomas and 5 siblings
Marriage to Mary Ann Nutbrown Apr-Jun 1863 Howden ref 9d 158
15 May 1870, Howden Birth of Thomas jr - father Thomas, mariner
Census 1871 Thomas a sailor, 3 children inc Great Grandad Thomas (9 months)
Census 1881 Thomas the master of George Herbert ship with Thomas jr as 10 year old mate
Census 1881 Hannah in Howden with 4 sons and another Thomas Watson (brother?)
Death 1884 Howden ref 9d 60

Thomas is described as a chemical worker on 2 of Thomas jr’s wedding certs. Anderton’s chemical works were the largest employer in the area at the time and had their own ships although shipping declined in the 1870s. George Herbert Anderton was the factory owner, so maybe Thomas was a sailor for them (on the George Herbert)and moved into the works when no sailing for him to do?

Dad sent me Mary Ann’s obituary which confirms all the still living children, which match my records and confirms she died in Howden. Her 2nd marriage is interesting though. The only Walter George Scarrow I can find of the right age was born in 1848 in Chippenham but lived most of his life in Lancashire. His wife died in 1892 and, as Mary Ann married Walter in 1893, that would fit, but he isn’t mentioned on the 1901 and 1911 censuses for Howden even though she was married. There are census returns for 1901 for a William George and Mary Ann Scarrow and 1911 for a Walter Gorge and Mary Ann Scarrow in Lancashire. Any thoughts?

On a related issue, I have been able to dispel a couple of family myths about great grandad and dad (aged 83) and I are speaking often!

[christanel]

Hi Sandra
Yes anybody and everybody can see every post on each thread. There is no need to post separate answers to each person who responds.
Christina

[christanel]

The 1911 census for Walter George age 62 and Mary Ann Scarrow age 66 with Walter's granddaughter Ann Counsell age 10 is a bit of a mess. It says Walter and Mary Ann have been married 11 years but I can't see a marriage for him and a Mary/Mary Ann anywhere 1898 - 1903. Also it says Mary Ann was born in Dilworth.
Their address is 7 Berry lane Dilworth and the address of a Mary Ann Slater with her parents in Dilworth in the 1881 census is 9 Berry lane Dilworth. I can't find a marriage of a Scarrow to a Slater either so either they weren't actually married or Mary Ann had a previous marriage and the husband was still living.
The other thing is that it says there was one child of this marriage and who is still living. Mary Ann's age needs to be considered when seeking a possible child of the marriage.

1901 census RG13 piece 3959 folio 71 page 55
31 Margate? Place Dilworth Lancashire
Walter George Scarrow 53 Chippenham, Wiltshire,
Mary Ann Scarrow 56 born Knowle Green, Lancashire
William Counsell 28 Longridge, Lancashire,
Alice A Counsell 28 Longridge, Lancashire,
Ann Counsell 1 month Longridge, Lancashire,

I am not confident that this is your Mary.
Christina

[almach]

I am not confident that this is your Mary.
Christina

I agree, Christina. I think Mary is the one still in Howden with sons George and John in 1901 and son John in 1911.

[almach]

Thomas is described as a chemical worker on 2 of Thomas jr’s wedding certs. Anderton’s chemical works were the largest employer in the area at the time and had their own ships although shipping declined in the 1870s. George Herbert Anderton was the factory owner, so maybe Thomas was a sailor for them (on the George Herbert)and moved into the works when no sailing for him to do?

Sandra, that theory seems plausible.

[Sandra Simmomds]

I am not confident that this is your Mary.
Christina

I think you may be right. There is a death registered for a Mary A Scarrow in Preston in 1913 and my Mary definitely died in 1928. It does beg the question of who Walter was and where he was on census day in 1901 and 1911. I can only find 2 Walter George Scarrows at all and I believe they were grandfather and grandson. Have sent for WG and Mary’s marriage cert from 1893 in the hope it might give some clues!