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  1. #11
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    I noticed that Margaret and John gave the same address on their marriage certificate but wondered whether she was working on the farm, or had gone there as housekeeper when Eleanor was taken ill/ died. It may be that the children in the 1851 census are Eleanors rather than hers.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    See if you can find any likely birth and death registrations for children John and Eleanor may have had, and search parish registers for baptisms and burials. Eleanor may have died in pregnancy or shortly after giving birth.

    Pam
    Quote Originally Posted by Megan Roberts View Post
    It wouldn't surprise me if they were all called Owen, however you are now back at a time when patronymics were alive and leap out to thwart the unwary family historian 150 years later.

    This may be the first time that you've come across this topic so the link below can probably explain it better than I although it equally applied to the female side.

    https://welshpatronymics.blogspot.com
    Quote Originally Posted by helachau View Post
    It's a bit of a puzzle!! On the wedding cert both John and Margaret give their residence as Pengroeslon, Ceirchiog

    Re. the crossing out, I can see the Enumerator's usual ticking/crossing through but Margret's entries look to be crossed through in addition.

    Places nearby listed on the Census Fach, Hen Gapel, Perth y Rhiw
    Thanks all, I'm going to have a go at this today! I am really excited about the patronymics! I had no idea, and yes it is the first time I've heard of the term. I knew that they did such things in Scotland, Ireland and Norway, but now reading about it I can see it was a widespread practice across the globe! I am very interested to see what names crop up, and how it came to be Parry, but I imagine the records from this point on will be harder to find, and may not exist anymore. I will give it a shot though!

    I did make that mistake with the surname Pam

  3. #13
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    Okay so as for births Ellen Mary and John, I have found three baptism records, two with Llechylched and one with Ceirchiog, all fitting the dates, with the mothers first name as Ellen.

    The addresses in both Ellen and Mary's are Pengroeslon, though in John's it says Gardd efo Ceirchiog.

    I tried to cross reference the births in GRO, I found a record for a Mary and one for a John at the correct dates, but not any record for an Ellin, Ellen or Eleanor. I found an Ellin born in FESTINIOG in 1949, but not in Anglesey.

    I searched for a death record for his wife between 1849 and 1854 and didn't find anything that matches the area or name on NorthWalesBMD, but I did find these most likely records on GRO:

    PARRY, ELLEN 29 GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in OF THE ANGLESEY UNION Volume 27 Page 305
    PARRY, ELEANOR 45 GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in OF THE ANGLESEY UNION Volume 27 Page 322

    Will keep looking!

  4. #14
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    I couldn't find a matching birth record for Ellen/Eleanor for either of those records with the father's first name Owen. I checked across all of the Anglesey records and nothing came up.

    I thought I would search Eleanor Owen with the father's name as Owen Parry without any location restrictions, and the date with a 5 year give/take and I found something in the Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial registers.

    RG4/3839
    Eleanor Owen the Daughter of Owen Parry and (I think) Catherine Parry (formaly Thomas).
    However, this birth was in 1823 and in Llanddeiniolen, Carnarvon.

    Not sure if this is the same person, but I suppose the date is not too far out, and it's right on the border for Anglesey.

  5. #15
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    I found a '41 census record for an Owen Parry and Catherine Parry in Aberffraw, they have 3 children living with them, one is a Margaret Owen 1831, but I couldn't find a birth record for Margaret between an Owen Parry and Catherine Parry.

    Archive reference HO107
    Piece number 1359
    Book number 1
    Folio number 16
    Page number 7

    Not sure I'm getting anywhere with this!

  6. #16
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Civil registration of births, narriages and deaths didn't begin until 1 July 1837, and even then not all births prior to 1874 were recorded.
    So for Margaret you would only be looking for a baptism record.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Civil registration of births, narriages and deaths didn't begin until 1 July 1837, and even then not all births prior to 1874 were recorded.
    So for Margaret you would only be looking for a baptism record.

    Pam
    Yes, sorry I had been checking under the baptism records for both Eleanor and Margaret, but nothing so far. I tried different misspellings of the surnames parri/pary/pari/barry/perry etc, larger leeway for the birth date and wider area, but nothing. Either I'm searching it wrong, they are mistranscribed, or there is no record on the sources I'm using (ancestry and findmypast). The only potential birth record is the one for Eleanor in Carnarvon, but I think it's a little too off.

  8. #18
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    North Wales BMDs https://northwalesbmd.org.uk/birthsearch.php

    The advantage of these BMDs is that search results show the sub-district within registration district. It only identifies year of birth, not quarter.
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by toaster View Post
    I couldn't find a matching birth record for Ellen/Eleanor for either of those records with the father's first name Owen. I checked across all of the Anglesey records and nothing came up.

    I thought I would search Eleanor Owen with the father's name as Owen Parry without any location restrictions, and the date with a 5 year give/take and I found something in the Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial registers.

    RG4/3839
    Eleanor Owen the Daughter of Owen Parry and (I think) Catherine Parry (formaly Thomas).
    However, this birth was in 1823 and in Llanddeiniolen, Carnarvon.

    Not sure if this is the same person, but I suppose the date is not too far out, and it's right on the border for Anglesey.
    I doubt very much that this is coññected.

  10. #20
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    In theory Eleanor should be an easy name to chase but it can be spelt in many ways and is sometimes shortened to Ellen or Elin etc.

    However, I thought that she must have been buried and that may well have occurred close to the farm Penygroeslon, so I have been checking Findmypast's Anglesey's parish records.

    Now before going any further I need to say that I am a member of Gwynedd FHS and that they have a Facebook page on which very recently one of the members, a native of Anglesey, has been raging about the mis-cataloguing of the parishes in that data set, and from the checks I have done today they are absolutely correct. If you are using them look at the original and check the top of the page to see what parish it really is, far too many of the transcriptions are totally wrong. Do not search by parish.

    That said searching for the burial of "E* Parry" 1847 +/_ 5 years brings up Ellen / Ellin Parry aged 29 buried 24 April 1850 and living at Penygroeslon. Now depending whether or not they have corrected the errors I pointed out to them it will list the parish as:
    Ceirchiog
    Llanwellwyfo
    Llechylched

    From this you should be able to get a fix on a death certificate.

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