I've completely hit a brick wall with my great-grandfather's side of the family and would appreciate any help, this is what I know;
Owen McCoy Farr
Born - Sep 1915 in Newport, Wales
Married - Dec 1936 to Alice M Mansel Davis
Died - Oct 1978 in Cwmbran, Wales
I have not been able to find a birth certificate, however I found his birth recorded in an index which lists his mother's surname as Bartz. I believe this to be a German surname, as we know that he had German relations somewhere, but that his mother was Welsh.
If anyone has any information that could help me find a record for either of his parents (father Farr, mother Bartz) it would be greatly appreciated.
Results 1 to 10 of 10
Thread: Bartz or Farr
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15-11-2019, 11:11 PM #1
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
- Location
- Wales
- Posts
- 2
Bartz or Farr
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15-11-2019, 11:53 PM #2
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Location
- England
- Posts
- 9,620
Hello crewesl5,
Welcome to British-Genealogy.
You don't 'find' birth certificates. What do find (as you have already done) is a reference to them in the GRO Index, which enables you to order a copy of said certificate.
Start here (ignore the Passport Office heading, it is the correct site).
gro.gov.uk/content/certificates/Login.asp
Register, and then select 'search indexes. Obviously you want births, 1915, and when you find the entry you'll have a choice of paying eleven quid for a certified copy in pretty pink/red, or seven for a black-and-white one.
The birth certificate will give you the names of Owen's parents, which should enable you to then search for a narriage certificate for them and hopefully start to go back a few more generations.
Though you should already have the marriage certificate of Owen and Alice which will hopefully list his father's name and occupation.
PamVulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”
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16-11-2019, 12:41 AM #3
There is a family of Bartz living in Newport, the head of family is Daniel Bartz born abt. 1851 in Germany, his wife is Catherine abt. 1854 born Merthyr Glamorgan.
1891: RG12; Piece: 4418; Folio: 115; Page: 19
1881: RG11; Piece: 5255; Folio: 78; Page: 47
1901: RG13; Piece: 4966; Folio: 12; Page: 16
Ancestry have mostly transcribed the surname as Barty, as have the GRO on some records, understandable as the letter Y can easily look like a Z. Should say in lower case e.g. y and z written in joined up writing.Alma
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16-11-2019, 12:56 AM #4
A possibility is this marriage, which would be Ellen's 2nd marriage.
Marriages Jun 1913:
Blake Ellen Farr Newport M. 11a 460
Farr John Blake Newport M. 11a 460
First marriage:
Marriages Mar 1898
Bartz Ellen Newport M. 11a 246
Blake Edward Newport, M. 11a 246
I'll do some futher searchingAlma
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16-11-2019, 1:05 AM #5
1911, Cohens Terrace Cwmbran, Monmouth, RG14; Piece: 32025; Schedule Number: 209;
married 13yrs, 4 children born alive, 3 still living.
Edward Blake 35, sea fireman, Dowlais, Glamorgan
Ellen Blake 32, Monmouth
Elizebeth Blake 8, dau, Monmouth
Ann Blake 4, dau, Glamorgan
Benjaman Blake 2, son, Newport
Daniel Barty 15, son, Cwmbran, Monmouthshire
John J Barty 21, brother in law, Monmouth
Margaret Barty 15, sister in law, Monmouth
I should add there is no proof as yet that these are your folks, Owen's birth certificate is essential. However, you can save these records for later to see if they fit with what the birth certificate reveals.Alma
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16-11-2019, 1:10 AM #6
A possible death.
Deaths Mar 1912; Blake Edward, age 36 Newport M 11a 356Alma
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16-11-2019, 1:52 AM #7
I think there's a mistake on the census return, Daniel is not Edward and Ellen's son but Ellen's brother (brother in law to Edward (the head of household)
It looks like Daniel and Margaret were twins, their birth registrations have the same references.
BARTZ, DANIEL, mother's maiden name SMITH
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 258
BARTZ, MARGARET, mother's maiden name SMITH
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 258
And this I believe is Ellen's birth registration, Bartz is spelled in different ways on different records, as it is unlikely Daniel would be able to write he wouldn't know whether his name was spelled correctly and the scribe would write what he heard.
BARRS, ELLEN SMITH
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in PONTYPOOL Volume 11A Page 143
And sister Catherine
BARTS, CATHERINE SMITH
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in PONTYPOOL Volume 11A Page 50Alma
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16-11-2019, 2:56 AM #8
This is the 1901 census which in my opinion is a mess, someone, could be enumerator, or whoever filled out the original return from which the enumerator made his copy into his book (the return we see on online sites).
1901, RG13; Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Piece: 4966; Folio: 12; Page: 16
Daniel Barty 51, head, coal hewer, Germany, naturalised British subject
Catherine Barty 46, wife, Glamorganshire
Mary Guffin 23, dau, Merthyr (think should be GRIFIN)
Catherine Guffin 19, dau, Cwmbran (should be BARTZ)
John Guffin 12, son, Cwmbran (should be BARTZ)
Daniel Guffin 5, grandson, Cwmbran (GRIFFIN)
Elizabeth Welsh 17, niece, Cwmbran
James Griffin 25, son - in - law, Cwmbran
John Griffin 3, grandson, Cwmbran
James Hy Griffin 2, grandson, Cwmbran
Mary Griffin 1, grandau, Cwmbran
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9TP-QMS
Also, it seems Catherine, Daniel's wife, has been enumerated twice in 1901, with both her husband and her dau Ellen Blake.
RG13; Piece: 5018; Folio: 82; Page: 6
Edward Blake 25
Ellen Blake 21
Catherine Bartz 46
Anne Bartz 14
Maggie Bartz 5
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X912-5WS
Marriages Dec 1895, Newport, M. 11a 388
Mary BARTZ/James GRIFFINAlma
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16-11-2019, 4:07 AM #9
Marriages Sep 1873, Merthyr T. 11a 662
Daniel Barz [sic] Catherine SmithAlma
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20-11-2019, 5:23 PM #10
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
- Location
- Wales
- Posts
- 2
Thank you all for the help - unfortunately no one in the family is sure if we have the birth certificates anymore, as both of Owen's daughters (my grandmother and my great-aunt) have both died, and we do not know whether they ever had them in the first place.
Also, as I have been unable to find their marriage certificate I do not have any idea on what the fathers names could even possibly be.
I will look further into the Bartz family in the census records - hopefully that will turn something up!
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