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Thread: Bartz or Farr

  1. #1

    Default Bartz or Farr

    I've completely hit a brick wall with my great-grandfather's side of the family and would appreciate any help, this is what I know;

    Owen McCoy Farr
    Born - Sep 1915 in Newport, Wales
    Married - Dec 1936 to Alice M Mansel Davis
    Died - Oct 1978 in Cwmbran, Wales

    I have not been able to find a birth certificate, however I found his birth recorded in an index which lists his mother's surname as Bartz. I believe this to be a German surname, as we know that he had German relations somewhere, but that his mother was Welsh.

    If anyone has any information that could help me find a record for either of his parents (father Farr, mother Bartz) it would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Hello crewesl5,

    Welcome to British-Genealogy.

    You don't 'find' birth certificates. What do find (as you have already done) is a reference to them in the GRO Index, which enables you to order a copy of said certificate.

    Start here (ignore the Passport Office heading, it is the correct site).
    gro.gov.uk/content/certificates/Login.asp
    Register, and then select 'search indexes. Obviously you want births, 1915, and when you find the entry you'll have a choice of paying eleven quid for a certified copy in pretty pink/red, or seven for a black-and-white one.

    The birth certificate will give you the names of Owen's parents, which should enable you to then search for a narriage certificate for them and hopefully start to go back a few more generations.

    Though you should already have the marriage certificate of Owen and Alice which will hopefully list his father's name and occupation.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #3

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    There is a family of Bartz living in Newport, the head of family is Daniel Bartz born abt. 1851 in Germany, his wife is Catherine abt. 1854 born Merthyr Glamorgan.

    1891: RG12; Piece: 4418; Folio: 115; Page: 19

    1881: RG11; Piece: 5255; Folio: 78; Page: 47

    1901: RG13; Piece: 4966; Folio: 12; Page: 16

    Ancestry have mostly transcribed the surname as Barty, as have the GRO on some records, understandable as the letter Y can easily look like a Z. Should say in lower case e.g. y and z written in joined up writing.
    Alma

  4. #4

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    A possibility is this marriage, which would be Ellen's 2nd marriage.

    Marriages Jun 1913:

    Blake Ellen Farr Newport M. 11a 460
    Farr John Blake Newport M. 11a 460

    First marriage:

    Marriages Mar 1898

    Bartz Ellen Newport M. 11a 246
    Blake Edward Newport, M. 11a 246

    I'll do some futher searching
    Alma

  5. #5

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    1911, Cohens Terrace Cwmbran, Monmouth, RG14; Piece: 32025; Schedule Number: 209;
    married 13yrs, 4 children born alive, 3 still living.
    Edward Blake 35, sea fireman, Dowlais, Glamorgan
    Ellen Blake 32, Monmouth
    Elizebeth Blake 8, dau, Monmouth
    Ann Blake 4, dau, Glamorgan
    Benjaman Blake 2, son, Newport
    Daniel Barty 15, son, Cwmbran, Monmouthshire
    John J Barty 21, brother in law, Monmouth
    Margaret Barty 15, sister in law, Monmouth

    I should add there is no proof as yet that these are your folks, Owen's birth certificate is essential. However, you can save these records for later to see if they fit with what the birth certificate reveals.
    Alma

  6. #6

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    A possible death.

    Deaths Mar 1912; Blake Edward, age 36 Newport M 11a 356
    Alma

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by almach View Post
    1911, Cohens Terrace Cwmbran, Monmouth, RG14; Piece: 32025; Schedule Number: 209;
    married 13yrs, 4 children born alive, 3 still living.
    Edward Blake 35, sea fireman, Dowlais, Glamorgan
    Ellen Blake 32, Monmouth
    Elizebeth Blake 8, dau, Monmouth
    Ann Blake 4, dau, Glamorgan
    Benjaman Blake 2, son, Newport
    Daniel Barty 15, son, Cwmbran, Monmouthshire
    John J Barty 21, brother in law, Monmouth
    Margaret Barty 15, sister in law, Monmouth
    I think there's a mistake on the census return, Daniel is not Edward and Ellen's son but Ellen's brother (brother in law to Edward (the head of household)

    It looks like Daniel and Margaret were twins, their birth registrations have the same references.

    BARTZ, DANIEL, mother's maiden name SMITH
    GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 258

    BARTZ, MARGARET, mother's maiden name SMITH
    GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 258

    And this I believe is Ellen's birth registration, Bartz is spelled in different ways on different records, as it is unlikely Daniel would be able to write he wouldn't know whether his name was spelled correctly and the scribe would write what he heard.

    BARRS, ELLEN SMITH
    GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in PONTYPOOL Volume 11A Page 143

    And sister Catherine
    BARTS, CATHERINE SMITH
    GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in PONTYPOOL Volume 11A Page 50
    Alma

  8. #8

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    This is the 1901 census which in my opinion is a mess, someone, could be enumerator, or whoever filled out the original return from which the enumerator made his copy into his book (the return we see on online sites).

    1901, RG13; Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Piece: 4966; Folio: 12; Page: 16
    Daniel Barty 51, head, coal hewer, Germany, naturalised British subject
    Catherine Barty 46, wife, Glamorganshire
    Mary Guffin 23, dau, Merthyr (think should be GRIFIN)
    Catherine Guffin 19, dau, Cwmbran (should be BARTZ)
    John Guffin 12, son, Cwmbran (should be BARTZ)
    Daniel Guffin 5, grandson, Cwmbran (GRIFFIN)
    Elizabeth Welsh 17, niece, Cwmbran
    James Griffin 25, son - in - law, Cwmbran
    John Griffin 3, grandson, Cwmbran
    James Hy Griffin 2, grandson, Cwmbran
    Mary Griffin 1, grandau, Cwmbran
    https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9TP-QMS

    Also, it seems Catherine, Daniel's wife, has been enumerated twice in 1901, with both her husband and her dau Ellen Blake.
    RG13; Piece: 5018; Folio: 82; Page: 6
    Edward Blake 25
    Ellen Blake 21
    Catherine Bartz 46
    Anne Bartz 14
    Maggie Bartz 5
    https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X912-5WS

    Marriages Dec 1895, Newport, M. 11a 388
    Mary BARTZ/James GRIFFIN
    Alma

  9. #9

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    Marriages Sep 1873, Merthyr T. 11a 662
    Daniel Barz [sic] Catherine Smith
    Alma

  10. #10

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    Thank you all for the help - unfortunately no one in the family is sure if we have the birth certificates anymore, as both of Owen's daughters (my grandmother and my great-aunt) have both died, and we do not know whether they ever had them in the first place.
    Also, as I have been unable to find their marriage certificate I do not have any idea on what the fathers names could even possibly be.

    I will look further into the Bartz family in the census records - hopefully that will turn something up!

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