Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    63

    Default Illegitimate inheritance rights before 1920

    Hi,

    My great-grandfather (Walter Peter Inglott 1883-1956) listed his father as Vincent Nicolas Inglott (1850-1920), but Walter does not have a GRO birth record, and is not listed in Vincent's will at all.

    I just read that illegitimate children were not legally allowed to inherit. Would this have been true around the time the will was written (before 1920)?

    My number one suspicion for there being no birth record, and his name not being in the will was because of the shame of illegitimacy, but if there is also a legal element then that would further back this theory.

  2. #2
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    1,615

    Default

    I think there are a few things that need clarifying. First, does all of this refer to England and Wales? Scotland and Ireland have different records.

    Quote Originally Posted by toaster View Post
    My great-grandfather (Walter Peter Inglott 1883-1956) listed his father as Vincent Nicolas Inglott (1850-1920)
    What document is this in? For example, a marriage certificate would give a father's name, but not his dates. And in cases of illegitimacy, it's not unknown for a father's name to be invented.

    but Walter does not have a GRO birth record
    That would be quite unusual for someone born in 1883. It's more likely that he was registered but if he was illegitimate it might have been under another surname. Can you tell us what you know about his birth from census returns etc, and give us his mother's name?

    and is not listed in Vincent's will at all.
    I've had a quick look in the probate index for 1920-22 and not found a Vincent Inglott. Please could you confirm the details you have about it?

    I just read that illegitimate children were not legally allowed to inherit. Would this have been true around the time the will was written (before 1920)?
    I'm not an expert, but it was in cases of intestacy (ie where there was no will) that illegitimate children were excluded. If someone writes a will they can include or exclude whoever they want.

    Sorry for all the questions, but it helps in working out exactly what we're dealing with.

  3. #3
    Reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    16,546

    Default

    A quick glance at the records suggests that he married in Sudan and his alleged father was married in Alexandria (not before 1886).

    If he wasn't named in the will as a beneficiary, he wouldn't inherit anything whether he was legitimate or illegitimate.

    If he was born illegitimately overseas, it's not surprising that there is no available birth record.

  4. #4
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arthurk View Post
    I think there are a few things that need clarifying. First, does all of this refer to England and Wales? Scotland and Ireland have different records.
    It actually would have been Egypt. The will is colonial Egyptian, but he was a British subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by arthurk View Post
    What document is this in? For example, a marriage certificate would give a father's name, but not his dates. And in cases of illegitimacy, it's not unknown for a father's name to be invented.
    This is in a marriage certificate, a British passport, and a passport renewal form.

    Quote Originally Posted by arthurk View Post
    That would be quite unusual for someone born in 1883. It's more likely that he was registered but if he was illegitimate it might have been under another surname. Can you tell us what you know about his birth from census returns etc, and give us his mother's name?
    Yes sorry, I should have mentioned the birth was in Alexandria, Egypt. I don't have a mother's name yet. It could be that his mother was called Rosina Venel (Or Rose Marie Venel), but I'm not sure. Vincent was married to her after the birth of Walter.

    Quote Originally Posted by arthurk View Post
    I've had a quick look in the probate index for 1920-22 and not found a Vincent Inglott. Please could you confirm the details you have about it?
    Vincent lived in Egypt/Switzerland and was from Malta; he was a British subject due to Malta being a British colony at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by arthurk View Post
    I'm not an expert, but it was in cases of intestacy (ie where there was no will) that illegitimate children were excluded. If someone writes a will they can include or exclude whoever they want.
    There is a will, which I got from the National Archives.

    Quote Originally Posted by arthurk View Post
    Sorry for all the questions, but it helps in working out exactly what we're dealing with.
    Not a problem at all, I left a little too much out of my original post, sorry!

    There is always the chance that Vincent is not Walter's father at all, and I am trying to obtain a birth record from St Catherine's Cathedral in Alexandria (it's not easy!), but it still may not make the story clear. I'm currently going on the idea that he was his father. My main reason for this is that I don't think he would have made himself a successful career as he did in those days without a good education; something he would not have received without a working father. It seems as though Vincent was quite well off for the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey View Post
    A quick glance at the records suggests that he married in Sudan and his alleged father was married in Alexandria (not before 1886).

    If he wasn't named in the will as a beneficiary, he wouldn't inherit anything whether he was legitimate or illegitimate.

    If he was born illegitimately overseas, it's not surprising that there is no available birth record.
    Yes, he married in Sudan.

    In the will he lists three children, Humbert Rowland Inglott, Edwin Vivian Inglott, and Andree Bertha Inglott - only one of those three brings up a birth record on the sources I have searched (Edwin), apart from in user trees. I don't know if I would get records of the other two from GRO if I found their dates of birth, but according to the existing trees, they were all born after Walter. Bertha moved to the UK and had a family, but the other two did not.

    edit: I looks like perhaps Edwin married, and perhaps moved to Morocco. Though I only have a find a grave index, and a tree from ancestry.co.uk to go by on this one.
    Last edited by toaster; 08-11-2019 at 3:32 PM. Reason: add detail

  5. #5
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toaster View Post
    Hi,

    My great-grandfather (Walter Peter Inglott 1883-1956) listed his father as Vincent Nicolas Inglott (1850-1920), but Walter does not have a GRO birth record, and is not listed in Vincent's will at all.

    I just read that illegitimate children were not legally allowed to inherit. Would this have been true around the time the will was written (before 1920)?
    Bastard (the correct legal term at that time) children have always been allowed to inherit, however to do so he/she would have to be named in a will. It was not until 1927 that this changed.

    Cheers
    Guy
    As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

  6. #6
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Etchells View Post
    Bastard (the correct legal term at that time) children have always been allowed to inherit, however to do so he/she would have to be named in a will. It was not until 1927 that this changed.

    Cheers
    Guy
    So then that would take the likely story to be that either; they had a falling out; Vincent didn't want to give anything to Walter because he was already doing okay; Walter said he didn't want to be included in the will; Vincent didn't know about Walter; or Walter's father was not Vincent.

  7. #7
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    1,615

    Default

    Thanks for answering my questions and clarifying the situation.

    There are indexes to consular BMDs at The Genealogist. These include quite a lot of Inglotts in Alexandria, including the births of Umberto Edgarae O, Edwin Vivian, and Emilia Andrena B.

    I didn't see a Walter Peter Inglott in the consular births index, but I also looked for him there but without a surname, and worldwide. I didn't spot him, however.

    Note that the dates on this site relate to the 5-year period covered by the register, rather than the exact date of birth: someone listed as 1881 will be in the 1881-85 register and could have been born any time in that period.

  8. #8

    Default

    Did you look for a birth certificate 7nder his mother’s surname. Normally, a child can only be registered with an unmarried father’s surname if the father was present at the registration.

  9. #9
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesley Robertson View Post
    Did you look for a birth certificate 7nder his mother’s surname. Normally, a child can only be registered with an unmarried father’s surname if the father was present at the registration.
    I checked under the surname Venel, but also searched Walter Peter + egypt; Walter Peter +dob; and a few others, but nothing comes up in the databases. Perhaps his mother was not British, or a British subject.

  10. #10
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arthurk View Post
    Note that the dates on this site relate to the 5-year period covered by the register, rather than the exact date of birth: someone listed as 1881 will be in the 1881-85 register and could have been born any time in that period.
    Yes, that's true.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Select a file: