John THOMSON and Maria DUFF - marriage record

[almach]

Hi Kate, Yes, all evidence points to Eliza being born in Glasgow abt. 1857, therefore you do have the right birth record, soon after her birth her family moved to England and here they are in 1871.

1871, Workington, Cumberland, England. RG10; Piece: 5243; Folio: 37; Page: 2;
John Thompson 45, Lab. ironworks, Ireland
Elisa Thompson 13, Scotland
James Thompson 11, Workington
Thomas Thompson 8, Workington

It is the family of Thompson's including Eliza 1857, her father John and mother Mary born IOM and still in Scotland in 1871 who are the wrong Thompson's. That Mary Thompson's maiden name was CLARK. and their daughter, Eliza, was born in the Edinburgh district, not Glasgow.

If you read through posts 8 and 15 on this thread you will see John and Maria Thompson and children, all the children's births are registered with Mother's maiden name DUFF and you know your Eliza's mother's maiden name was Duff as per the Australian death certificate and Scottish birth record.

I hope this helps to clarify things. I'm sorry but I haven't found a marriage for John Thompson and Maria Duff, it isn't clear where they married, it could be Ireland, Scotland or England. Did you search Scotland's People for a possible marriage?

[almach]

You will see there are births for all the children registered in the Cockermouth district which is the registration district for Workington, except no birth registration for Eliza as she was born in Glasgow Scotland.

[almach]

Kate, don't forget to read all three of my replies (including this one) since your last post.

Perhaps you are unaware that you can now find Mother's maiden name on the GRO site from 1837? You have to register but it is a free site. Link below.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
Click on ' Order certificates online' then register. After you've registered and logged in click 'Search the GRO Indexes', then check 'births' enter a year to search two years either side you'll then be taken to the page to enter name etc.

[Bess]

Census 1851 at Pow Street Workington Cumberland
THOMPSON John 25 yrs farm labourer b. Aintree Ireland
THOMPSON Maria 26 yrs b. " "
THOMPSON John 5 yrs son b. " "
THOMPSON Margaret 4 yrs dau b. Workington Cumberland
THOMPSON James 1 yr son b. " "

John, wife Maria and son John born Aintree Ireland

[Katehackier]

Thankyou Bess and Alma. I’ve tried Scotland’s People in the past - will do some more searching there. I’ll also start searching the Irish lines.

[Katehackier]

Any ideas why the family would have moved from Ireland to England to Scotland, then back to England (based on children’s births)?

[Lesley Robertson]

Probably looking for something better. Some farm workers moved every 6 months if their job didn’t suit them.

There was a lot of movement from Ireland to the Glasgow area. And across the Scotland-England Border, especially the southern/northern counties, respectively.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Census 1851 at Pow Street Workington Cumberland
THOMPSON John 25 yrs farm labourer b. Aintree Ireland
THOMPSON Maria 26 yrs b. " "
THOMPSON John 5 yrs son b. " "
THOMPSON Margaret 4 yrs dau b. Workington Cumberland
THOMPSON James 1 yr son b. " "

John, wife Maria and son John born Aintree Ireland

There’s nowhere in Ireland called Aintree. I suspect that’s a mis-spelling of Antrim.

To me, the age of the oldest child John in the 1851 census (aged 5 born in Ireland) points to the couple marrying in Ireland around 1844/5. Statutory marriage registration started in Ireland on 1st April 1845, except for RC marriages (1864). Prior to that you are reliant on church records. Not all have survived and of those that have survived, not all are on-line. If you don’t know where in Antrim they lived, it may be difficult to trace them. I searched the records for April 1845 onwards but did not find a marriage for them. So that points to them marrying in 1844 or early 1845.

Most surviving pre April 1845 marriage records for Antrim and adjacent counties are held in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. However they are not on-line and you need to go in person to look them up. And if you don’t know the parish or denomination it’s a needle in a haystack.

Many people from Ireland went to work around Cockermouth. There was lots of labouring work there and it was cheap and easy to get to. (There used to be regular sailings from Belfast to Workington and Barrow in Furness, in Cumberland). Ireland has almost no natural resources eg iron, coal, shale oil etc, and so the industrial revolution largely passed it by. However Scotland and Northern England were full of those and so there were hundreds of thousands of new jobs in coal, steel making, chemical works, railways and related industries. There had been a huge population explosion in Ireland in the 1800s (population went from 3 million in 1741 to 8 million in 1841). There was little or no work for them all in Ireland so people were pouring out all through the 1800s to go and work in Scotland and England. Some then later moved further afield eg to the USA or Australia. Once you have moved once, it’s comparatively easy to move again. (It’s called stepped migration).

[almach]

Thank you, Elwyn for your informative post

[Katehackier]

Thank you! That’s very helpful.