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  1. #91

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    Having briefly read the article on Wikipedia Marriage Allegations,Bonds and Licenses it appears that Sidney and Cecilia married by license because her father was against the marriage. They then had a full Jewish ceremony to confirm the marriage. Some of the licenses only lasted three months but we would need to read more fully about the conditions.
    If Cecilia had been a convert to Judaism then usually there would be a reference to this in the marriage contract-kettubah.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  2. #92

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    This is a record for the burial of Cecilia Levien nee Phillips-Montego Bay-Parish of St.James The old Burial Ground Union Street- 1351 Cecilia wife of Sidney Levien 30th June 1865 aged 58 Leaving several children and grandchildren. There is an additional note stating that the synagogue fell into disrepair and pre 1958 a commercial firm had acquired the burial site and only three tombstones remained.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillip View Post
    #79 Sidney Lindo Levien=Cecilia Phillips marriages. There are 2 marriages for Sidney and Cecilia - one in a Church of England ceremony and the other in the Hambro Synagogue. These are two Jews marrying each other. The Church of England ceremony- 5 May 1830 St Stephen Walbrook city of London -witnesses Catherine JACKSON;John?HEART?; Charles Waring PHILLIPS

    The Hambro Synagogue Synagogue Scribes HSM160 Sidney Lindo Levien-Hebrew name Yehuda Leib-father's hebrew name Shlomeh Levehn -Cecilia Phillips father's Hebrew name Mr Sampson

    I don't know why they would have 2 marriages- was Cecilia's father against the marriage for various reasons and had he tried to cover up his Jewish roots and wanted Cecilia to marry a non Jew.
    By the way, Jews adopted many Anglicised last names for all sorts of reasons- ease of pronunciation compared to their original names; wanting to fit in,business etc.....You can't make a judgement on the surname origins because they may sound Jewish for example my lines are Hart, Jacobs among others but they are not original tribal names nor are they the names they adopted when in the countries they came from.
    Ah ok thank you Phillip so they were two Jews marrying each other, thank you for clarifying that. In that case, according to the obituary, at least some of her family did go to some lengths to prevent the marriage for some reason. Bizarre to have the 2 marriages, but as you say there could be all sorts of reasons behind it.

  4. #94

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    These maybe the parents of Cecilia Phillips. Her Hambro Synagogue Marriage record has her father's Hebrew name Mr Sampson. I am aware that the spellings of surnames vary considerably for the time. Some online family trees have her father as Samuel Phillips and Anna Nathan.
    Synagogue Scribes PSEM 175 have Samuel Phillips Hebrew name Samson 1806 Synagogue Record -father Judah mother's forename Phoebe=Hannah Nathan (Nb the advanced search on the site is not currently working to enable me to see further data on Hannah) There is a note on the Synagogue Record to say that Samuel/Hannah went to Jamaica in 1818.
    This Jamaica link to Samuel Levien may suggest that these are the parents of Cecilia.
    There is a burial record for a Mrs Anna Phillips wife of the late Samuel Phillips Esq of Montego Bay and daughter of the late Philip Nathan Esq of Portsmouth 7 Nov 5592 aged 46 leaving 8 orphan children. She died 1831/32.

    I can't currently see a burial for Samuel Phillips.When Samuel Levien married Cecilia Phillips in London May 1830 it looks as if her father may have been dead and her mother died the 1-2 years later.

    Who were the 8 orphan children and was Cecilia considered to be one of them?
    The parents, if they are those of Cecilia, were Jews.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  5. #95

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    Amanda
    You can see my blog on Louisa Salomons on Cemetery Scribes website. Gaby Laws posted it today and kindly added a picture of St.Luke's Finsbury.

    The following may or may not be the father/mother/siblings et al of Hannah Nathan aka Anna who married Samuel Phillips- see Synagogue Scribes NA 385 Philip Nathan of Portsmouth 29 Nov 1825. In his will he specifies that any bequest he made to his daughters would only occur if they married a person of the Jewish religion and born of Jewish parents. He names Harriot his daugher as Harriot Phillips Montego Bay. The question is whether or not she is Hannah aka Anna Phillips nee Nathan.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillip View Post
    Amanda
    Gaby Laws the owner/administrator of Cemetery and Synagogue Scribes has kindly agreed to my submitting an article on Louisa Salomons for a Blog. I have already drafted an article and will submitted next week.

    In the meantime, I have re-read the archaelogical survey of St. Luke's Old Church and still cannot clearly identify where the bodies/coffins were re-buried - there were 21 vaults in the crypt containing 72 burials of which 56 were named. On p22 of the report they stated that the Church diocesan stipulated that "sealed coffins should not be opened and that such coffins should be sleeved on site and removed for burial"

    If Louisa was buried in a vault in the crypt where was she re-buried or is she still in the crypt? In addition, on pp33-35 the report stated that no corpses were to be placed in vaults except in leaden or metal coffins this appears to have occurred after 1810. In 1853 the vaults were sealed by in filling with dumps of soil,domestic refuse,building rubble.
    Do we take it that the excavation of the vaults removed this debris so that vaults could be identified and removed?

    I would appreciate your re-reading of the report and any comments on what happened to Louisa very welcome.
    Ok I have re-read the paper and it definitely states that Louisa (Salomons) Elliot was buried in a lead coffin which was found in bay 3 of the Church Crypt. The coffin was found intact therefore according to the diocesan rules would not have been opened so the skeleton was not analysed. According to the same rules the coffin should’ve been sleeved on site and reburied. I think they cleared everything out of the crypt so that they could refurbish and reuse the listed Church building.

    In the summary on p 13 it states that the work comprised the exhumation of all the burials in the northern and southern churchyards as well as clearance of all burials in the crypt. A total of 1O53 burials have been recorded and removed.
    As Louisa was in the crypt I take that to mean her coffin was removed for reburial elsewhere, but I couldn’t see any reference to where that would be.

    On Page 283 the paper makes mention of using redundant churches or crypts for reburial but seems to be saying that this would be for burials that would be of interest for future research so that they could be accessed more easily, which presents the question what happens to those eg intact coffins which they can’t do research on due to reasons of dignity and respect ie Louisa ? No mention of that.

  7. #97
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    [QUOTE=phillip;676073]Amanda
    You can see my blog on Louisa Salomons on Cemetery Scribes website. Gaby Laws posted it today and kindly added a picture of St.Luke's Finsbury.

    Hi Phillip, do you have a link to your blog please? I couldn’t see it on the Cemetery Scribes website.

  8. #98

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    Hi Amanada
    If you go onto Cemetery Scribes website and look at the top of the page you will see headings in bold black capitals..Home/About Us/Site Info/FAQ/Whats New/Contact Us/Sources/Statistics/Disclaimer/BLOG/RSS
    Click on BLOG and my article is the latest posting.

    It's not my Blog but owned by Gaby Laws owner/administrator of the site.

    My article is a summary of the research on Louisa Salomons and also the related families- it's some 1600 words.

    Let me know what you think of the article.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  9. #99

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    This maybe the father of Anna Nathan who married Samuel Phillips. The key issue is the first name Harriott in the will but known as Harriett Phillips of Montego Bay.Synagogue Scribes will extracts NA 385 Philip Nathan 29 Nov 1825 Merchant Portsmouth. In his will he specifies that any bequests to his children will only be honoured if they marry a person of the Jewish religion and both parents must be Jewish.
    Further research is needed on this line to confirm whether or not it relates to Hannah aka Anna Phillips of Montego Bay.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  10. #100

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    This is the Synagogue Scribes will extract NA 858 for Rosy Nathan widow of Philip Nathan of Portsmouth 1831- in her will she refers to her children including Hannah Phillips. This will coupled with that of Philip Nathan suggests that Hannah is the wife of Samuel Phillips Montego Bay Jamaica. In which case, is Cecilia one of their children?
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

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