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  1. #11

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    Amanada
    I noted that William Page Ashburner was married twice. First to Hester and then to Anne Beale in 1845.

    You might want to look at the British Newspaper Archives on this line and also noted in 1870 a Genealogy enquiry regarding the Ashburner. There are numbers of articles on William.

    I will look at the newspaper articles on the lines post 1800 and in the Jewish Chronicle Archives 1841-present but be aware that when families marry out of the Jewish faith the JC may not include their names unless linked to existing family members who have remained Jewish and not married out.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  2. #12

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    Amanda
    Are there specific areas of your family tree you would like help with particularly the Jewish connections.
    The Launceston Adveriser Thur 15 March 1838 reported.." On the 4th inst. at Sillwood Hester the wife of William Page Ashburner Esq
    Also there are various newspaper articles on William and some of his children from his second marriage.
    There is.. "Killed at Cawnpore, by the mutineers Lieut.Burnett Ashburner Bengal Artillery 6th son of William Page Ashburner Esq formerly of Bombay and garndson of the Dowager Lady Forbes of Newe..."
    See Australian Newspaper Archives online (Trove Collection).
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  3. #13
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    Yes, as I understand it, William Page Ashburner first married Hester Maria Elliot, their children were
    ?Charles, William, George, Louisa, John and Lionel. Lionel was acting governor of Bombay and director of the Great Indian Peninsular Railway and was a Companion of the Order of the Star of India (CSI). They all seem to have been relatively high-flyers and part of the society scene in the British Raj.

    WP and Hester went to Tasmania where she died. I have a distant Australian cousin who also claims WP Asburner and Hester Maria as her 4th great grandparents through one of the children who stayed there.

    Following the death of Hester Maria, WP Ashburner then went to England and married Anne Beale, they had two children to my knowledge. WP died in England.

    Just for info - William Page Ashburner's mother was Elizabeth Cotgrave by her first marriage to a William Ashburner. When WP's father died quite young she remarried to Sir Charles Forbes bart. and became Lady Forbes - hence the connection to Forbes & Co - nothing like a bit of nepotism !
    Last edited by AmandaR; 29-10-2019 at 6:28 PM. Reason: to clarify

  4. #14
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    Hi again,
    thank you for the newspaper articles - I didn't realise that one of his sons was killed in the mutiny - I will definitely follow that up and find out if Burnett was a son of Hester or of Anne Beale.

    I agree, this spreads out a lot and could get off track - what I really would like to confirm is whether my George Elliot is the one that married Louisa Salomons and thus confirms that my direct ancestors are the Salomons family. I really appreciate your help as I was really excited to discover there may be the possibility of Jewish heritage - non of this has been ever talked about in my family and I would really love to know for sure.
    Many thanks again

  5. #15

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    Amanda
    If we look at the Jesse Goldsmid will she says her nephew is Edward King Elliot and he is a minor. If we take Edward died 27 March 1865 as the link to the Salomons/Prager aka Preger and Goldsmid through marriages we can also see that his Probate was proved by John Ashburner.

    Burnett Ashburner baptism 5 May 1830 Tasmania parents Esther Maria and William Page;Lionel Robert Ashburner Tasmania 14 Jan 1828 parents William Page Ashburner and Hester Maria.

    We also have the marriage of George Elliot to Louisa Salomons in 1795- it's a pity that the Goldsmid et al were not witnesses to confirm further relationships.

    At present, it appears that your lines of Elliot/Ashburner are related to the Salomons/Goldsmid/Prager unless we have misread current data. However, let us look further and see if other records emerge to confirm the relationships.
    What are your thoughts?
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  6. #16
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    Hi again Phillip
    I have spent a happy couple of hours looking through newspaper articles. I don’t know why I didn’t take out a subscription before, it seems well worth it. Although it does add to the burgeoning cost of my all consuming “hobby”.
    Thank you for inspiring me to look, and I have added Lieutenant Burnett Ashburner and his poignant story to my tree on Ancestry.

    I also found the Synagogue Scribes web page, and managed to locate the info that you suggested on there. Tomorrow I will try again to get my fuddled head around some of their relationships- I had Israel Yehiel Levin Salomons father on my tree as Yehuda Levie Salomon Jessayer Preger Lieb but that’s different to the info on the website- which is Jacob Levin Salomons. Or could it be a Hebrew version?

    It’s exciting you have found mentions of Elliots AND Ashburners in connection with the Salomons- that’s promising then! It is fascinating they all knew each other. It does make me wonder what was George Elliot’s background then, and how he came into contact with the Salomons. I haven’t a clue who his parents were or what their occupation was.
    He must’ve been quite well heeled to marry into the Salomons as from what I have read, Israel Levin Salomons and his nephew Benjamin Goldsmid and others were very wealthy.

    I found this clip on Ancestry : “....the book Diamonds and Coral-Anglo-Dutch Jews and Eighteenth-Century Trade (1978)United States by Gedalia Yogev. The book details the import/export businesses developed and operared by Yehiel Salomons Prager in London (1762-1792), his brothers Jacob and David in Amsterdam. Beginning in 1783, three sons of Jacob and David ie. Yehiel, Jr., Meyer, Sr., and Meyer Jr., established the firm of Praegers, Lambert & Co. in Philadelphia. After 1789 the firm was known as Prager & Co. until the firm went bankrupt. See the book United States Jewry, 1776-1985 Volume I, by Jacob Rader Marcus (1985).
    The failure of Prager & Co. was caused by the French seizures of British and American ships/cargos ( i.e. French Spoliations) starting in 1793 due to the war between the French Republic and Great Britain. In the Treaty of 1778 between the U.S.A. and France, the United States agreed to assist France forever in any wars with Great Britain as compensation for France's assistance during the American Revolution. When the war broke out in 1793, the US negotiated a Commercial Treaty with Great Britain. Thus, the French felt justified in attempting to seize all ships carrying British and United States cargoes. Prager & Co. claimed losses of 24 ships/cargos carrying their import/export goods.”

    Despite these losses, from Israel’s will I see he still managed to leave his 6 children £2,000 each in 1788, so that’s quite something!

    I think you’re right, it does look like my 5th great grandfather George Elliot married my 5th great grandmother Louisa Salomons and had a daughter, Hester Maria Elliot who married William Page Ashburner.

    I am very excited about this and will be reading all the documents you mention if I can get my hands on them. I also want to find out about Edward Elliot and John Ashburner and what their relationship was with the Salomons.
    Thank you so much !

  7. #17

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    Happy to support your research Amanda. By the way, you can get free access to the British Newspaper Collection 1800-1900 via your library card. I have this free access. There are also 2 volumes by Doreen Berger called The Jewish Victorian. Genealogical Information from the Jewish Newspapers 1861-70;71-80 published 1999 and 2004 Robert Boyd. I have copies of these volumes and they are very useful because Doreen has connected some of the family relationships. The volumes contain Birth,Marriage,Death as well as other records.
    There are numerous other sources on Jewish Genealogical data including the Jewish Genealogical Society Gt Britain which holds several thousand family trees including Goldsmid and the realted lines- you can see the names held online at the library. There are also the Hyamson and Collyer Fergusson Anglo Jewish family trees and other data held at the Society of Genealogists London. I visited the SoG on several occasions some years ago and got copies of my lines which proved crucial in researching further.My distant cousins and I have a family history website containing hundreds of records and other data.
    Twenty years ago I knew nothing about my family history and no idea of my Jewish roots but the data i hold with many of my distant cousins is now huge.

    Let me know if you would like specific research on individuals or families and I will see what I can locate if possible.

    I will look further on the Jewish lines
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  8. #18
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    [QUOTE=phillip;675471]Amanda
    If we look at the Jesse Goldsmid will she says her nephew is Edward King Elliot and he is a minor. If we take Edward died 27 March 1865 as the link to the Salomons/Prager aka Preger and Goldsmid through marriages we can also see that his Probate was proved by John Ashburner.”


    Hi again Phillip,
    Did you see a picture of Jesse Goldsmid’s will? On the extract on the Scribes website I didn’t see the part about Edward King Elliot being a minor.

    Also sorry I wasn’t quite sure what you meant in your second sentence above. How would I find Edward King Elliot’s probate and how did you find his death date?

    Kind regards Amanda

  9. #19

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    Hi Amanda
    I think you said you had an Ancestry.Co family tree.Do you have full access to the records on Ancestry?If so, take a look at the full will of Jesse Goldsmid and also the Probate for Edward King Elliot.
    What I have done also is to note the references in the Synagogue Scribes wills to relationships between the Salomons and the Goldsmid and Levien- See NA 447 Nathan Salomons 1825 granddaughter Abigail Rosetta Levien granddaughter of his late wife; grandson Nathaniel Goldsmid son of Edward Goldsmid; NA 787 1843 children Aaron Asher Goldsmid;Esther Salomons;Eliza (deceased)wife of Moses Asher Goldsmid;NA 535 1813 George Goldsmid son in law Peter Salomons; Benjamin Goldsmid 1808 sister in law Harriet Salomons the wife of Solomon Levien, Matilda Salomons now called Prager, siblings Esther =Elias Joachim (his widow) and second marriage to Nathan Salomons.

    Nb There are likely to be other relationships as yet not confirmed/identified.

    If you look at the Will Extracts on Synagogue Scribes you will note that in some of the lines last names differed among siblings and other relatives. This was because of several reasons- individuals taking on their father's first name as a surname,individuals taking on the surname of their wife,individuals taking on the surname of a business partner, individuals taking on Hebrew tribal names. As an example, my 5x great grandfather was Moshe Cohen but his daughter Kitty my 4x great grandmother used the name of her father Moses as her surname.
    Many Jews did not have surnames until the mid/late 19th Century and in France and Austria, Russia and other places ( Spain and Portugal in earlier times)surnames were forced on Jews with some having to pay for the names.
    I hope this helps.

    Happy to help further.
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  10. #20
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    Hi again,
    Yes I do have full access to Ancestry but for some reason it kept throwing up a probate record which had another name on but not John Ashburner. I then found a handwritten last will and testament on Findmypast with a lot more detail on and other family members. Needless to say when I went back to Ancestry I found the other record with John Ashburner’s name on. The handwritten one was from India and the other was probate records from England. So I now know that my 5th great uncle Edward King Elliot was a Lt.Colonel in the Bengal Army, he was the son of the so far elusive George Elliot and of Louisa Salomons, the nephew of Jesse Salomons/Goldsmid and he was the grandson of Israel Yehiel Levin Salomons and Hester Jacob Levie Preger.
    I also found Jesse Goldsmid’s will which as you said, confirms a connection with Edward King Elliot who was a minor at the time. As his mother Louisa was dead by the time of Jesse’s will maybe Jesse had taken her nephew under her wing. I understand that Louisa Salomons died in childbirth in 1811 and other documents seem to point to Edward being born in 1811. I also now know that there was another link to the Ashburners via my 4th great uncle Major John Ashburner, who was deputy Commissioner to Chindwarrah in India at the time.

    Very exciting, thank you! I never knew about any of these people before a few weeks ago and then I couldn’t quite see the proof until you pointed me in the right direction.

    Now that there seems to be a cast iron link to the Salomons I will be looking at the other documents about Salomons/Preger/Goldsmid you mentioned and I hope you don’t mind if I come back with more questions.
    Your help has been invaluable Phillip, thank you so much!

    My mother, who is 87, is coming back soon from a trip to India (she was born and spent her early life before Indian independence in Bombay - as you can see, there is a strong connection in my family to India), her DNA is showing 7% European Jewish and I can’t wait to tell her about her Jewish roots, she will be gobsmacked I can tell you!! ��

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