John Henry Parry - my great-grandfather

[toaster]

Hi everyone. I've been at my family tree for quite a while, but I had left my mothers side, because of this brickwall I've come across. I have lots of details, but it's really difficult to find anything solid!

My mothers grandfather was called John Henry Parry, and his wife was Ann Roberts, they had one child John Parry (1910-1998). John Henry Parry fought in the Boer war, and WW1. He had a nephew called Owen Williams who later became a policeman.

He received a medal for bravery during WWI it is believed. Apparently he ran out into no mans land and carried a fallen solider to safety. There has been speculation he could have been a stretcher bearer, but this recent speculation. He survived the wars. My mother met him when she was a child (which means he died after 1952) His medals were all stolen in the 80s.


We think he was born in Wales, perhaps Anglesey, though we think they moved in or near to Liverpool at some point.

All of my searches have not turned up much, I get lots of John Henry Parry's, but nothing I can call concrete. Even my grandfather John Parry is drawing up blanks. Any ideas?

[Pam Downes]

Hello toaster,

Welcome to British-Genealogy.

First of all, it's surprising just how common a name John Parry is, so can you perhaps give a little more information about places?

You mention Liverpool, so is the John born in 1910 the one who's birth was registered in West Derby registration district September quarter 1910? (Therefore born sometime between about 20 May and 30 September that year.) There's a death registration for a John Parry in Gravesend registration district in 1998, with a birthdate of 29 July 1910. Is this your John?
I assume you have a copy of his birth certificate, confirming the names of his parents.

The West Derby bit would fit with a marriage registration in September quarter 1909, West Derby registration district with a John Henry Parry and an Ann Roberts on the same page. If the birth registration is correct, then do you also have a copy of that marriage certificate? If not, then that is your next step.
Apply via the General Register Office (GRO) (ignore the Passport heading, it's the correct site)
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Additional references you will need to apply are volume number 8b page number 888.

The marriage certificate will hopefully tell you John Henry's age, and the name and occupation of his father. Equally hopefully those two small details will help us find John Henry in the census. At the moment I'm having trouble finding John born 1910 in the 1911 census.

Pam

[almach]

At the moment I'm having trouble finding John born 1910 in the 1911 census.

I think this is John and his mother, Pam. I've not looked yet for John Henry.

1911, 91, Keats St, Bootle. RG14; Piece: 22432
Annie Parry, 26, married 1yr, born Carnarvonshire (Caeathraw)
John Parry, 8 months, born Bootle

[toaster]

Yes, John Parry brings up a lot of results, most of my other relatives have been reasonably easy to find, because their names are a bit more uncommon. It's a little unnerving to find so many results when trying to paint an accurate picture of the history!

You know, I thought I did have a marriage certificate for John Parry, because I have his birth date and death date entered in the family tree, but I must have got that information from my mother. Yes the Gravesend John is my grandfather. I just applied for his marriage certificate. Will take a little while to get to me!

[Jomot1]

This looks like John's birth:
PARRY, JOHN mmn ROBERTS GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 354

There is a marriage in West Derby RD Q3 1909 Annie Roberts & John Henry Parry

The marriage certificate should reveal more about JHP, including his age, occupation & fathers name & occupation. To be certain it's the same couple, I'd also suggest obtaining the birth certificate.

ADDED: Oops, ignore - I read Pam's post too quickly and missed that both details had been posted already. My apologies to you both.

[Pam Downes]

This looks like John's birth:
PARRY, JOHN mmn ROBERTS GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 354

There is a marriage in West Derby RD Q3 1909 Annie Roberts & John Henry Parry

The marriage certificate should reveal more about JHP, including his age, occupation & fathers name & occupation. To be certain it's the same couple, I'd also suggest obtaining the birth certificate.

ADDED: Oops, ignore - I read Pam's post too quickly and missed that both details had been posted already. My apologies to you both.

Don't worry Jomot1. Been guilty of cross-posting myself on many occasions because I'm such a slow typist.

Also if two people come to the same conclusion about details it often means that they're on the right track.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

Yes, John Parry brings up a lot of results, most of my other relatives have been reasonably easy to find, because their names are a bit more uncommon. It's a little unnerving to find so many results when trying to paint an accurate picture of the history!

You know, I thought I did have a marriage certificate for John Parry, because I have his birth date and death date entered in the family tree, but I must have got that information from my mother. Yes the Gravesend John is my grandfather. I just applied for his marriage certificate. Will take a little while to get to me!

As you were talking about plain John born 1910 in the previous sentence I hope that it's not his marriage certificate you've just sent for, but that of John Henry.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

I think this is John and his mother, Pam. I've not looked yet for John Henry.

1911, 91, Keats St, Bootle. RG14; Piece: 22432
Annie Parry, 26, married 1yr, born Carnarvonshire (Caeathraw)
John Parry, 8 months, born Bootle

As always, Alma to the (highly likely)rescue.
Looks very promising. Wonder if that's the address on young John's birth certificate?

Think you might be wasting your time looking for John Henry in 1911 until we have an idea of his age. Also, I wonder if he was away in the army? Young John's birth certificate will hopefully give a clue as to his occupation.

toaster - if you haven't got young John's birth certificate you can get a PDF (black-and-white) copy for seven quid from the GRO. Use their website to search the Indexes, and select PDF as the option. It's sent via email for you to download. Not as fancy as the pink/red-coloured certified copy, but cheaper and will arrive quicker. Though as it's for a direct ancestor you might want to order the 'pretty one' instead.

Pam

[toaster]

As always, Alma to the (highly likely)rescue.
Looks very promising. Wonder if that;s the address on young John's birth certificate?

Think you might be wasting your time looking for John Henry in 1911 until we have an idea of his age. Also, I wonder if he was away in the army? Young John's birth certificate will hopefully give a clue as to his occupation.

toaster - if you haven't got young John's birth certificate you can get a PDF (black-and-white) copy for seven quid from the GRO. Use their website to search the Indexes, and select PDF as the option. It's sent via email for you to download. Not as fancy as the pink/red-coloured certified copy, but cheaper and will arrive quicker. Though as it's for a direct ancestor you might want to order the 'pretty one' instead.

Pam

Ah so that's how you get the PDFs! I was wondering. I will still need to wait a while, because I no longer have a British bank account (I live abroad) so my brother will have to put the transaction through.

I do like the paper ones, but I am trying to verify as much as possible, so it makes financial sense to do most of the certificates by pdf when I can! Part of the tree has already been researched by my great uncles daughter, but it still means I probably need about 60 odd certificates on the other side.

I'm very interested to find out about John Henry. My mum has told me stories about how he changed after the war, and people were quite scared of him. People used to call him "Big Jack", because he was tall. I hope I may be able to find at least some of his military records.

[Pam Downes]

The PDF certificates are only available for events in what the GRO originally called the 'Historical births and deaths index' but which they now call just indexes. For births this currently goes from 1837 to 1918 and for deaths 1837-1957. Next year, the births index will 'expand' to include births registered in 1919, and increase every year until they also reach 1957.
Unfortunately the GRO never got as far as including marriages in their indexes but quite a few marriage 'certificates' can be found in online parish registers. The bonus with those, of course, being that you're looking (provided they could write) at your ancestor's original signatures.

While I was typing I thought I'd try to check out if Ancestry had parish registers for Lancashire and they do have some, but not for Liverpool. I then remembered that quite a few of the Lancashire registration districts have their own online indexes so checked for John Henry's marriage. Found that his wife is listed as Annie (not Ann) so make sure that your brother either omits her name, or else spells it as Annie else the GRO will say that they have no record of the marriage. You have to spell everything exactly as it is in their indexes.

However I then remembered that a lot of the Lancashire registration districts have produced their own indexes.
The Lancashire index says that it was a Register Office or Registrar-attended marriage, so it won't appear in any online C of E parish register.
If he hasn't already started the process of ordering from the GRO, your brother could order the certificate from Lancashire BMD
https://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
It will probably be an extra quid or two but it also might be a copy from the original register. You will have to decide if it's worth the gamble.
My apologies for not remembering that site sooner.

Pam