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  1. #1
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    Default Online marriage records for Europe/Scot/???

    Hi...live in the USA, so unable to visit Kew or other research sites in person.

    Because of this, wonder if any suggestions as to how I might find the marriage record of a couple who married circa 1839-1846 from ONLINE sources. The couple were both British, but the usual sources have so far yielded nothing. Have checked freebmd site, familysearch, findmypast, etc. Since the marriage took place after National Registration began in 1837, it seems strange that I can't find their marriage info.

    Starting to think they may have married in Europe, Ireland, one of the Channel Islands, etc.. Would a British couple's marriage have been recorded in England even if they wed outside of England or Wales?

    What would be the best online websites I should check? Would appreciate any suggestions on where I might look next? Would I have to look at online records for every poss/potential country they may have married in - or again, would their marriage have been recorded in some British record (though they may have married elsewhere).

    Posted my original query about this couple on the thread here called "Brickwalls" on Sept. 11, 2019 titled "Need Marr. and Death info." Would have copied and pasted here, but not sure if we're allowed to do that.

    Will greatly appreciate any suggestions as to how I should proceed, and any online sources that might address this particular set of circumstances.

    Deb

  2. #2
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    This is Deb's original thread about the marriage.
    https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...and-Death-info

    For information, Jane's father on her marriage certificate to David Perston is named as Charles Bottrall, deceased.

    To avoid confusion and/or duplicated research we only allow one thread per subject, so I have closed the original thread.

    Would a British couple's marriage have been recorded in England even if they wed outside of England or Wales?
    It would not appear in the GRO Index if it took place outside of England and Wales.

    For marriages in Scotland you need Scotlands People. You have to register to search, but only pay if you want to view a record.

    For Ireland try https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ but you need church records as the civil registration records for marriages don't start until 1864.

    Ancestry have a dataset Jersey, Church of England Marriages, 1754-1940 but I didn't see any likely results for Jane/Jennifer.

    Not sure about marriages/indexes for Guernsey or the Isle of Man being online.

    Findmypast have the index to overseas marriages that were registered at 'British Armed Forces and Overseas Banns and Marriages'.

    If Temple Browne was in the Foreign Office, then they could possibly have married in India. Some Indian records are on FMP.

    Have you checked the British Newspaper Archive (most of which is available on FMP) for an announcement of a marriage?

    Remember to search for a marriage prior to 1839. It's dangerous to make assumptions about when
    an event occurred.

    Double-check the newspaper dates in the first thread as to when he might possibly have been in England and possibly abroad.

    And lastly, bear in mind that Temple could be listed as plain John Brown (no 'e' at the end).
    Jane's surname might also be mis-transcribed as Buttrell, Bottrell, Battrall, with any combination
    of one or two L and T's.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #3
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    Hi Pam.....thank you so much for all the possible online sites I can check out. Thank you also for closing out my earlier thread on Brickwalls. Being new here, I wasn't quite sure how that worked.

    The reason I am pretty sure the marriage didn't take place until 1839 is that I have seen a newspaper article about Temple (one that used his long full name) when he was yet again in debt. It was dated from 2 Oct. 1839, and it mentioned that he was a "single man". The court was deciding how much of his current salary they would garnish to give to his creditors - I guess if he had been married at that time, they would perhaps have garnished a smaller amount.

    I found that in the British Newspaper Archive on FMP. Temple worked in the Slave Trade Dept. of the Foreign Office between 1834-1840. He took a 2 year leave from there to serve with the British Auxiliary Forces during the 1st Carlist War in Spain. He first served in one Regiment and then was transferred to the Rifles - his rank was Captain. He was wounded, but finally returned to work at the Slave Trade Dept./Foreign Office until about Nov. of 1840 when he is no longer listed.

    The reason I listed Jane's maiden name as either Bottrall or Pope was bec (based on her ages listed on census records) the only person I could find a baptism record for (with father Charles) at the right time period, was for a "Jenefer Pope/Bottrall" - "base/illegitimate" dau. of Charles Bottrall and Ann Pope in Camborne, Cornwall 1812. I also found out that in Cornwall at that time, women named Jane were often called Jennifer and vice versa.

    When I did have a subscription to FMP (don't have one now), I did check the Armed Forces and Overseas marriages, but couldn't find theirs.

    Think this will drive me nuts until it's found (I'm sure everyone else feels the same on their brick-walls!).

    Thanks again.....I will keep hunting!

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    Forgot to add....on census records, Jane states she was born in Camborne, Cornwall. After the death of Dr. David Perston, she went on to marry once again - this time to Sir James Saumarez Jephson, 3rd Baronet. She must have been quite a woman to have taken the interest of these men! I sent off for a copy of her will (when she was married to Jephson), but it gave no clues to her prior marr. to Temple Brown(e). I have also sent off for a copy of the marriage Licence for Jane and Dr. Perston hoping it might have some addt'l info. - but, it has not yet arrived. Seriously doubt if it will add anything new (but just grasping at any new avenue that might help).

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    Pam...also forgot to answer yr question of whether I had searched for a newspaper article about their marriage. I did check on FMP in their British Newspaper archive. I didn't find anything, but may not have used the right combination of search terms to locate it. Also, had the thought a while back - she may have had a marriage even prior to Temple Brown(e). Again, I did try to search for any marriage of a Jane or Jennifer of whatever surname to anyone with the surname of Brown or Browne - found nothing. Yikes - haha, this is indeed a real mystery.

  6. #6
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    If you know that Jane remarried to Sir James then if you don't already have it you ought to consider purchasing that marriage certificate, assuming it took place in England, because (a) it will tell you her father's name which might help you in your search for her marriage to Temple Browne and (b) it would be interesting to know she was described on that certificate.

    For instance it might say that she was the widow of XYZ or the former wife of abc or something else entirely.

  7. #7
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    Thank you for a great suggestion. Am currently waiting for a copy of the Marriage Licence for Jane and David Perston, which I ordered from the SOG. Hoping it may shed some light - it should arrive in a week or so. Thanks for posting!

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    A transcribed record on FMP of her 1871 marriage to James Sanmarez Jephson gives father as "Charles Bottrall".

    Under "Spouse's Previous Spouse's Last Name" it states "prev married"!!
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  9. #9
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    Appreciate the info you found on FMP very much. Funny how they just put "prev married" instead of listing her previous husbands' surnames. Thanks for yr efforts on my behalf!

  10. #10
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilson8 View Post
    Appreciate the info you found on FMP very much. Funny how they just put "prev married" instead of listing her previous husbands' surnames. Thanks for yr efforts on my behalf!
    The transcribed record is found on FamilySearch, and I suspect the 'spouses' previous spouses' is a line used in general because that information will be shown in the records for some countries.
    It doesn't appear in civil registration marriage certificates for England and Wales. You will usually get 'widow'. That's why it just says 'previously married'.
    Though I do have a marriage certificate for 1947 where the husband's status is described as 'Formerly the husband of Dora Smith, formerly Green, from whom he obtained a divorce'.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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