Joseph Smith Cheltenham??

[blacklace]

Following on from my previous post about William Creed, I'm now struggling to find information about his Spouse Louisa's Father.

Louisa's Birth Registration says that she was born in 1867 in Cheltenham and her Mothers maiden name was Richings.

I've found her Baptism record(she was baptised in 1878) along with her siblings, it says her father was Joseph Smith (he worked as a Lathe Render) and mother was Mary Ann (So I'm assuming this is Mary Ann Ritchings born in 1843 to James and Anne Gulley).

The problem I have is he doesn't appear on any census's.

Mary is married (and head of the household) in 1871 and 1881 and widowed in 1891, but I can't find anything about Josephs death let alone his birth (also, why wasn't he in the house for the previous 10-20 years??).

I can't even find a marriage between Mary Ann and Joseph, so I'm completely Stumped

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Mark

[brentor boy]

Joseph Smith/ Mary A Richings. Mar 1866 Cheltenham. Looks a distinct possibility. The marriage certificate should give some information about Joseph.

Where were the children baptised? Any clue as to why the delay?

[Lesley Robertson]

Two questions:
Is he named on Louises’ birth certificate?
When was the last child of Joseph & Mary born?

PS After seeing BB’s post... Did they change religious denomination?

[brentor boy]

Joseph Smith and Mary A Richings on same page Mar 1866 Cheltenham.

Have you identified Sarah Ann Smith(9) and Anne Smith (6) shown as daughters in 1871? Might they be the children of Anne Smith, 49, widow, also in the household?

The presence of Ann Richings 69, mother confirms Mary Smith's identity.

[blacklace]

Two questions:
Is he named on Louises’ birth certificate?
When was the last child of Joseph & Mary born?

PS After seeing BB’s post... Did they change religious denomination?

I don't have the birth certificate, I took the info about her mum from the GRO.

The youngest according to the 1881 Census (Ethel) was 1

[Lesley Robertson]

Ethel's arrival suggests that he was still alive, and around in 1880.

If a couple was not married, the father's name could only go on the birth cert if he was present when the birth was registered. Do you have any of the birth certs? If so, is he named? Of course, Mary was listing herself as married in the census, and I'm not sure whether she would lie to the census taker.

The census is not perfect - it was never intended to keep track of families, just individuals. It only lists people who slept under a particular roof on census night, not where their home was. Thus a travelling workman (salesman, knife sharpener, etc) might be listed at an inn, visitors were listed wherever they were visiting, and sometimes people were listed twice because they were away from home (and listed where they slept) and the family made a mistake. Some seamen never appear in the census because they were at sea that night.

[brentor boy]

Two births that may be of interest:-
Sarah Ann Richings Mar 1862 Cheltenham. No mmn
Annie Louisa Richings Sep 1865. Cheltenham. No mmn

The task is now to identify Ann Smith, widow. Perhaps q sister-in-law?

And who is Margaret Johnson, the lodger? Another relative?

[Lesley Robertson]

I see that the 1881 census lists Mary's mother as Ann Ritchings b. abt 1803. Father, was William.

Actually, it lists Ann as mother of HoH - Mary's mother.

[brentor boy]

The names Charles William Johnson and Margaret Smith appear on the same page Sep 1865 Gloucester. May be entirely coincidental but could provide a clue to the origins of the Smith family. ( Margaret born Leamington)

[blacklace]

I've found the banns for Margaret and Charles, Margaret's father is Thomas Smith, and Charles's is Lars.