J.LYONS AND CO-THE SALMON,GLUCKSTEIN FAMILIES

[phillip]

In my previous post #30 the address 10 Elmore Street Islington London is recorded in connection with the death of Abraham Abrahams. This address is that of his daughter Phoebe who had married Joseph Benjamin.
This line further relates through the marriage of their son Alfred aka Abraham to Sarah Alma Jacobs see thread started 3.1.2015. The Jacobs/Simmonds are my relatives and details of the Jacobs/Simmonds can be seen on this forum in numbers of posts I wrote from 2015.
I was unaware of the Abraham Abrahams family connections to my Jacobs/Benjamin lines until I began this specific thread.
A Jacobstree family website was established by one of my Jacobs cousins several years ago and contains very detailed records, sources and research contributed by myself and other cousins world wide.

My lines also include marriages to Lyons families but as yet I have not done research to link these Lyons to Joseph Lyons of J Lyons and Co.

[phillip]

My error- the death of John Joseph Abrahams and not Abraham Abrahams should have been written but the relationships between the various families as described remain correct.

[auburn]

You might like to listen to "Start the Week" BBC Radio 4 Monday 21/0/19 - you can access it via the BBC website. Thomas Harding was discussing his book.

[phillip]

Many thanks for your message.
I will hear what he has to say having read his book.

[phillip]

In this post I will include a range of records on Nathaniel Joseph Lyons c 1820-1888 father of Sir Joseph Lyons.These records include extracts from the Jewish Chronicle, census and other records.Nathaniel aka Nathan aka A LINES married Hannah Cohen c1824-1893.Nathaniel Lyons parents were Joseph Lyons c 1788-1856=Catherine?

As the research on the lines progresses I will post more.

Various major texts on Nathaniel Lyons refer only very briefly to him as an itinerant seller of watches and cheap jewellery. However,as records show he was also a picture dealer and a dealer in steel pens,black lead pencils and other goods.He was also a debtor and used the name A LINES...The London Gazette 2 January,1855 Court of Insolvent Debtors.."Nathan LYONS, formerly of York Place Walworth Dealer in Pictures, wife a milliner, then of 5 Qeens Head Row,Newington Butts, Dealer in Pictures, steel pens and Black lead pencils etc afterwards of 94 Saint Georges Road Southwark. Dealer in steel pens,black lead pencils and Jewellery now at 41 London Road aforesaid. Dealer in fancy goods, steel pens and black lead pencils, part of the time trading as A. LINES."

The address of 5 Queens Head Row Newington Surrey recorded in the 1855 The London Gazette Debtor's record matches that of Nathaniel in the 1851 Census:
(Crown Copyright TNA)HO107 1568 259 28
5 Queens Head Row Newington Surrey
Hannah LYONS H M 32 None occupation b St Pancras
Lawrence COHEN brother u 21 Cabinet Maker b St George Southwark
Maria COHEN sister u 17 none b St George Southwark
Joseph LYONS son 4 b St George Southwark

Nathaniel Lyons is not present at the address in 1851 and this maybe because of his itinerant movemements or the use of another name. As the London Gazette record showed he was using a trading name of A.LINES.

The later census record Nathaniel aka Nathan as a picture dealer and optician.
His son Isaac Nathaniel Lyons Freedom of the City Admission Papers 3 July 1908 recorded..
Isaac Nathaniel Lyons (son of Nathaniel Joseph Lyons late of Brynanston Street, Hyde Park W Middlesex Fine Art Dealer deceased) Merchant occupying premises 51 St Marys' Axe Parish of St Andrew Undershaft

Whether or not Nathaniel was or was not in later life a Fine Art Dealer requires confirmation but the census and London Gazette confirm that he was a picture dealer at different times and an optician.

1861 Census(Crown Copyright TNA) RG9 345 14 23
3 Church Passage Newington Surrey
Nathaniel Lyons HM 42 Optician b Cambridgeshire Newmarket
Hannah wife 36 b Middx London
Catherine dau 8 b Surrey Newington
Lawrence son 3 b Surrey Newington
Isaac son 1 b Surrey Newington
+1 servant

Nathaniel's mother Catherine is living next door in the 1861 Census at 2 Church Passage..
Catherine LYONS H Widow 50?60? b Cambridgeshire Cambs
Benjamin son u 29 Cigar Maker b Surrey Newington
Gillian dau u 27 b Surrey Newington

1871 Census (Crown Copyright TNA)RG10 621 50 4
31 Kennington Park Road Newington London
Nathaniel Lyons H M Picture Dealer b?
Hannah wife 47 b Clerkenwell
Joseph son u 23 Traveller Pictures b Surrey Borough
Kate dau u 18 b Newington
Lawrence son 13 b Southwark
Isaac son 12 b Southwark
Maria COHEN ? 32 b Borough
+1 servant

1881 Census (Crown Copyright TNA) RG11 602 38 10
21 Fentiman Road Lambeth London
Nathaniel J Lyons H M 61 Dealer in works of art b Cambridge Leamington Priors Newmarket
HANNAH WIFE 56 b London
Kate dau u 27 b London
Lawrence son u 23 Merchants clerk b London
Isaac son u 21 Traveller b London
+1 servant

GRO Death Index
Nathaniel Joseph Lyons b abt 1820 Age 68 Oct qtr 1888 London City 1c 1

1891 Census (Crown Copyright TNA) RG12 1045 147 23
60 Brondesbury Villas Willesden Middx
Issac N LYONS H M 32 Rope Manufacturer b Southwark
Lydia wife 23 b City
Kate dau 3 b Willesden
Sarah dau 2 b Willesden
Hannah LYONS mother widow 65 b Southwark
+4 servants +1 boarder

I will post further.

[phillip]

The following are records for Joseph Lyons and his wife Catherine surname unknown parents of Nathaniel Lyons and grandparents of Sir Joseph Lyons:
See JewishGen UK data bases 1851 Anglo Jewry Data base. Joseph Lyons ID 24681-this data base links to Cemetery Scribes data base Joseph Lyons ID 368 which has a photograph of his tombstone buried Brady Street Jewish Cemetery- died 27 Sept 1856 Inscription Joseph Lyons Sept 27 5616 (1856) Aged 68 Mr Joseph bar Yehuda died 27 Elulu 5616. The records include his children and dob and these should be compared to the 1851 Jewish Gen records.
Based on the 1841-51 Census and other records the children of Joseph and Catherine are:
Nathaniel b 1820;Michael b 1826;Rachel 1826; Fanny 1827;Morris 1827;Julia 1829;Benjamin 1830;Jesse 1835;Rebecca 1836;Abraham 1838. The dob are rounded up based on the census records.

Joseph Lyons in the 1851 Census is recorded as born Germany.Caution needs to be taken on origins of places of birth at this period of time particularly foreign births.

The 1841 Census shows:
HO107 1063 5 8 32 8 16 (Crown Copyright TNA)
Cumberland Place St.Mary Newington Surrey
Joseph LYONS 55 General Dealer Not born in county
Catherine 40 b in county
Michael 15
Morris 14
Benjamin 8
Abraham 3
Rachel 15
Fanny 15
Julia 12
Jesse 6
Rebecca 4
All children born in county

1851 Census (Crown Copyright TNA)HO107 1568 255 20
6 Cumberland Row Newington Surrey
Joseph LYONS H M 62 General Dealer b Germany
Catherine wife 58 b Cambridge
Frances dau u 24 Household duties b Surrey Newinton
Julia dau u 22 Cap maker b Newington Surrey
Benjamin son u 21 Cigar Manufacturer b Newington Surrey
Jessie dau u 16 Dress maker b Newington Surrey
Rebecca dau 15 Flower manufacturer b Newington Surrey
Abraham son 13 scholar b Newington Surrey

I will post further.

[phillip]

The Jewish Chronicle June 29,1917 carried an Obituary for Sir Joseph Lyons 1847-1917. The following is an extract from the obituary.."Sir Joseph Lyons, son of Nathaniel Lyons of Newmarket and London was born in South London and educated at Borough Jewish school and a private academy.In early manhood he was a painter of water colours and to exhibit at the institute and eleswhere."I began life as awater colour painter" he once said....He had been in the United States east and west...He married Psyche daughter of the late Mr Isaac Cohen manager of the Pavilion Theatre, Whitechapel Road when it was owned by the late Mr Morris Abrahams....."
The obituary referred to his invention of a chromatic stereoscope,his work as an author and other interests. The obituary also stated his father had been in the optical business.

Joseph Lyons stereo scope patent including diagrams and technical details can be seen online at the Official Gazette of the United States Patent Office 1885 Official Gazette Sept 29,1885 patented in England Sept 12, 1884.
Probate
Sir Joseph Nathaniel Lyons 26 West Kensington Gardens Middlesex knight died 22 June 1917 at Hyde Parkl Hotel Knightsbridge Middlesex. Probate to Dame Sarah Lyons widow, Robert Donald editor and Michael Morton author
Effects £58447 15s 11d

The Jewish Chronicle contains a small obituary for Sarah Psyche Lyons nee Cohen December 10,1948 and the sale of her jewellery and other possessions in 1949 including a range of diamonds, sable capes, mink coats and ermine and a 25 hp Rolls Royce Limousine 1935 1 ownership 44000 miles

GRO Death Index Psyche Lyons age 88 b abt 1860 Oct qtr 1948 London 5c 410

[AmandaR]

Hello everyone this is my first post on this forum so please bear with me. I caught the name Salomons or Solomon and I wonder if anyone can tell me about Louisa Salomons Preger b. 1777 d. 1811. If I have this correct, she is my 5th great grandmother and her parents were Israel Yehiel Levin Salomons and Hester Jacob Levie Preger, from a Dutch Jewish family. I believe that Israel Salomons was a diamond merchant who was born in Holland and moved to London. I think he had links to India and America. If these are the correct people Louisa was christened when she was aged 2yrs (I was interested in why they might do that) and she married George Elliot b. 1774 d. 1841, one of their daughters being my 4th great grandmother Hester Maria Elliot b 1798 England d 1838 in Tasmania. This Hester went on to marry the Hon William Page Ashburner in India.
I guess what I am asking is did Louisa Salomons definitely marry George Elliot (of whom I know nothing yet)?
I have one or two documents from ancestry. Com but would the book mentioned here have anything about this or are there any other documents or books I could look at that mention the Salomons family with the Elliot and Ashburner families? Thanks in anticipation.

[phillip]

As a help to Amanda and so as not to confuse her enquiry with this thread would the moderators consider setting up a new thread on the Salomons-Preger lines.
These lines appear to be documented on various online sites and I can also provide responses to Amanda's queries.

[phillip]

Amanda and moderators- the Prager/Elliot lines were part of research I did with Jen Bales on the thread Introduction and Unusual request see #208 11.01.2018 which concerns the will of Benjamin Goldsmid in which he names his relativesincluding the Prager and Elliot among others. The Goldsmid relate to my own lines via marriages and I have posted on these on several threads.