J.LYONS AND CO-THE SALMON,GLUCKSTEIN FAMILIES

[phillip]

For those researchers seeking records of patients/inmates of London Bethlem Hospital Patient Admission registers and Case Books 1683-1932 see Findmypast website-Incurable Patients 1723-1853;1792-1919 plus other sets of records. The Hospital is recorded as moving to St.Georges Fields Southwark in 1815

[phillip]

This posts confirms the relationship between Barnett Salmon who died in 1897 and his step brother Moss aka Moses Solomons aka Sloman. I will post a range of data on Moss Sloman including his marriage to Catherine aka Siegenberg and their children.

The Morning Post Friday July 2 1897 included as part of Barnett Salmon's bequests - to his step brother Moss Sloman 356 Old Ford Road £200 and £50 each to his step brother's children Barnett and Lena Sloman.

The marriage of Moss Sloman to Catherine SIEGENBERG GRO Marriage Index Jan qtr 1866 London 1c 182.

There is a tombstone in Plashet Cemetery with the inscription for both Kate and Moss- Jewish Chronicle Sept 19,1913
The Tombstone of Kate Sloman will be consecrated at Plashet Cemetery Sunday Sept 20th at 3.30

Probate Moss Sloman 332 Old Ford Road Middlesex died 20 April 1907 Probate to Lewis Phillips cateer's storekeeper Effects £3152.17s 3d

Probate Kate Sloman 332 Old Ford Road Victoria Park Middx widow died 1 March 1913 at 5 Lichfield Road Bow Middx. Administration with will to Barney Sloman inspector and Albert Sloman manager Effects £232.11s 10d
GRO Death Index Kate Sloman June qtr 1913 Mile End 1c 406
Death Index Moss Sloman b abt 1846 April qtr 1907 age 61 Bethnal Green 1c 95

The following from the Jewish Chronicle May 9 1913 confirms various family names and addresses following the death of Kate Sloman nee SIEGENBERG

"On the 1 May at 5 Lichfield Road Bow Kate, relict of Moss Sloman aged 67. Deeply mourned by her sorrowing children, Sarah and Bertie of above address also Harry Sloman 19 Shore Road NE;Mrs L PHILLIPS 175 High Street Camden Town;Alfred Sloman 'Fernlea'118 King Edward Road NE; Mrs M SAMUELS 30 Burgoyne Road NE; Mrs E POTHUS 42 Gordon Road Bow;Barney Sloman 75 Helix Road SW;Mrs M STANLEY 76 Arbery Road Bow. Sadly missed by her sons in law,daughters in law,grandchildren and a large circle of friends. Shiva 5 Lichfield Road Bow.

I will post further on the lines.

[phillip]

See JewishGen 1851 Anglo Jewry Database for information on the parents of Catherine aka Kate SIEGENBERG:
Henry Siegenberg ID 27584 and Sarah ISAACSON
See Synagogue Scribes Marriage Records-NSM2 143 9 June 1841
Henry SIEGENBERG Black lead pencil maker 13 Freeman Street Spitalfields- father Jonas
Sarah ISAACSON 5 Fisher Street Petticoat Lane father M Married at bride's address. Bride Illiterate

London Trader's Records- Henry Siegenberg- Black lead pencil maker PO 1849-1865 12 Widegate Street

Kate Sloman's burial at Plashet Cemetery date of burial 4.5.1913 Section L Row 7 Plot 32

I will post census data.

[Deeny]

Philip,

None of my husband's family are known to hold any records relating to Aaron and Sarah Solomon, nor were they aware of any connection to Barnett Salmon and the Lyons Tea Shops until I found an on-line tree which showed him as the child to a former marriage. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful.

The Dec 1854 GRO death certificate for Sarah Sloman cannot be Aaron's wife as her age is given as 74. That would give Sarah Cohen a date of birth around 1780 and she would have been 55 at the time she had Rebecca, her first child.

Deeny

[phillip]

Deeny
Thank you for your last message. My specific interest relates to the Abrahams/Benjamin who married into my Jacobs/Simmonds. However,given that I also have Gluckstein/Samuel distant relatives I will post further on the Solomons/Sloman.
As you may know the Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain has a range of family trees and associated records on Jewish families donated by family members and others. It is my intention to donate my own research to the Society which covers my own 6 Anglo Jewish lines but in addition others who I am not related to but based on associated research. My British Genealogical Forum personal profile does not identify my background but it was an academic one hence my interest in seeking records and other data which can be verified and studied in depth.

Is any of the current data posted new to you and are there individuals you are still researching related to Barnett?

[phillip]

In 1991 Basil Slowman 1920-2015 wrote a message in the Jewish Chronicle Feb 1 1991 seeking information on his grandparents Kate Siegenberg and Moss Sloman. The message was written from Orange Grove Johannesburg South Africa. He stated that his mother was Miriam Sloman nee MORRIS b July 12,1883 95 Old Ford Bow. Her mother Sarah, married Alfred Isaac Morris died 1930 aged 78. His father Barney Sloman b Dec 9 1881 225 Hackney Road Haggerston died 1940 aged 40. His parents were Moss Sloman/Kate Siegenberg.

Basil Sloman married Anne Miller in South Africa 11 March 1945 see South Africa Jewry 1767/77 3rd Ed Leon Feldberg p326. Further records indicate that Basil and Anne moved to Canada but this needs confirming.
His mother Miriam re-married to Harry Fine- US Border Crossings from Canada to US 9.15.1947
Miriam FINE nee Morris formerly Sloman b July 12 1883 London son Basil Slowman 14 W? Park Road Pinner Middlesex
Address in US Not definite Buffalo and New York -husband Harry Fine

This is the 1939 Register (Copyright TNA)
RG10 569D
184 Green Lanes Stoke Newington London
Barney SLOMAN b 9 Dec 1881 Traveller Catering
Miriam Sloman (FINE added later to the register) b 12 July 1883 Unpaid domestic duties
Julian Sloman son b 20 Feb 1913 Master Tailor

1911 Census (Copyright TNA)
29 Arodene Road Brixton Hill SW
Barney SLOMAN H 29 Manager of Bakers Depot J Lyons and Co Ltd b Hackney Road
Miriam wife 27 married 2 years 1 child 1 alive b Ford Road Bow
Miriam dau 1 and a quarter years b 56 Fairleigh Road Stoke Newington

The following record from the Jewish Chronicle

[phillip]

For researchers seeking more information on Aaron Solomons aka Sloman and his later family see British Jewry Archives-under Sloman/Lyons/Sad but comforting story.
In her messages between 2006-2008 Su Solomon Armidale NSW who is a descendant of Aaron through his daughter Rebecca wrote "My ggreat Aunt Sophie Sloman married out in 1857, and living with her at the time of the 1861 Census is her brother Moss Sloman, he is apprenticed to Sophie's gentile husband as a shoemaker."

Referring to Aaron she writes.."his two remaining daughters Rebecca and Sophia marry in 1858 and 1857 respectively under the surname Sloman...Aaron Sloman dies 6 Dec 1877 at his son Moss Sloman's home Calvert Street Shoreditch age 89 years cause of death Apoplexy. Aaron Sloman had been living with his son Moss since the time of the 1871 census where he appears 'badly/poorly' enumerated as ANNA SLAMIN visitor widow age 76 age placed in female column born City of London (blind old age). On the relative section of the census the word visitor has been over written with what appears to a be a capital F for father."

In the other messages reference is made to the deaths of Harriet and Asher with reference to their death certificates.

Currently on Ancestry.Co and Findmypast I can't locate a Anna Slamin or Moss Sloman in the 1871 Census using phonetic and other search facilities. Any help identifying the family would be appreciated.

[Deeny]

Philip,

I hadn't previously known anything about Barnett Solomon's mother Jane, but it seems possible that if his maternal grandmother was the widow Sarah Hart nee Hyams, daughter of Moshe Black Boy, my husband could also be blood related to him through another of his family lines.

Rebecca Hyams, daughter of Woolf and granddaughter of Moses Gershon Hyams married Moses Cohen, son of Samuel and Rachel Buzaglo at Bevis Marks in 1827. Moses Hyams had at least three children: Hyam born about 1777, who married Judith Jonas in 1799 and died soon after without issues; Rebecca who married Lawrence Coleman in 1796 and Wolf who was born in 1762 and married Susan Levy at the Gt Synagogue in 1792, with the data for this being available on Synagogue Scribes. Sarah Hyams could also be a child of Moses Gershon Hyams, who was a printer and may therefore, through the nature of his inky profession, have been known by the nick name "Black Boy".

If that is the case, when Rebecca Sloman's daughter Sophia Solomons married Moses Benjamin Cohen in 1881, her half uncle Barnett Salmon would have been her husband Moses (Joseph) Cohen's second cousin once removed, through his paternal grandmother Rebecca Hyams.

However, there seem to have been a number of people called Moses Hyams living in London at the end of the C18th. One was a wig and peruke maker, another was supposedly born in Vilna, Damniz Poland and lived in Ireland with his wife Judith Isaacs in the 1750's and 60's. There is a possibility that Moses Hyams from Damniz (about which there is much written on the Internet) and Moses Gershon Hyams the printer are one and the same person, with his later children being born in London to an unknown second wife. My husband shares a small quantity of DNA with one of the American Damniz Hyams decedents, but with so much Jewish family intermarriage that can be somewhat meaningless.

There was a tree on My Heritage which claimed Barnett Salmon was born in Rheinburg, West Germany in 1829 and his mother died that year in London. I understand some of the Gluckstein family came from Rheinburg, so might Barnett and his wife have been distantly related? When Barnett is seemingly missing from the census returns, could he have been in Germany visiting, or living with, distant family?

I've not been able to positively identify Barnett Salmon's step-mother Sarah Cohen's family, as her father is described at the time of her marriage merely as Mr Moshe Cohen, of which there were plenty in London at the relevant time. I suspect Moses Cohen and Sophia who appear in the 1841 census in Wentworth Street, St Mary Whitechapel with their 20 year old daughter Ellen, might be her parents. (HO107 717 6/34 18) Moses is a dealer, born in Middlesex about 1776.

I had assumed that Aaron and Sarah Solomon were both Ashkenazi, but looking at the naming pattern of their children, it seems that they didn't stick to the tradition of not naming them after living relatives. Rebecca their first child, born about 1835, was named after her paternal grandmother who was then still alive, Sophia born about 1836, appears (if the above couple are the correct parents of Sarah Cohen) to have been named after her maternal grandmother, who was still alive five years later. Their first son Asher was named after his paternal grandfather, who was already dead in 1840 and the second son Moses appears to have been named after his maternal grandfather whose date of death is unknown.

The Solomon / Sloman / Salmon family are a bit of a puzzle.

Deeny

[phillip]

Deeny
You have provided a very useful overview of some of the lines and raised important questions regarding the Ashkenazi naming tradition issues. Further research is needed on the lines.Harding in his book wrote that Lehmann Gluckstein came from Jever 100km north west from Bremen and later moved to Rheinberg age 32 in 1819.
There are other issues regarding Lehmann and his early life pre arrival in the UK including the possible faking of his death which Harding describes with supporting references.

I am aware that there are family trees on the lines at the Society of Genealogists London Anglo Jewish records and some years ago I visited the centre on several occasions to make copies of my own lines.
The JGSGB library also holds records but I have yet to visit.

I will look further and post relevant data.

[phillip]

This post provides data from the Jewish Chronicle regarding the Abraham Abrahams-Benjamin-Gluckstein-Salmon and associated families.This data is for the 1890s and there is a range of earlier and later records on the lines. The Jewish Chronicle publication covers the period 1841 to the present.
1.2.1895 Death
On 24 January at 230 New North Road Islington,John Abrahams father of Abraham Abrahams of 155 Sutherland Avenue aged 92-father of Mrs J Benjamin 10 Elmore Street N and Mrs Henry Phillips 28 High Street Aldgate
Marriage 8.2.1895 On 31 Jan at Bayswater Synagogue,John eldest son of Abraham Abrahams of 155 Sutherland Avenue to Amy Evelyn, 2nd daughter of the late Joseph Benjamin 53 Highbury New Park
Marriage 16.11.1894
On the 14 Nov at the Bayswater Synagogue -Alfred Salmon 14 West Kensington Gardens the eldest son of Barnett Salmon Esq to Frances Abrahams eldest daughter of Abraham Abrahams 155 Sutherland Avenue

Probate
John Abrahams 230 New North Road Islington Gentleman died 24 Jan 1895 Probate to Henry Phillips furniture dealer and Edward Benjamin Gentleman Effects £769.18s

GRO Death Index
John Jacob Abrahams b 1803 aged 92 Jan qtr 1895 Islington 1b 300

Death
21.8.1891
On 17 August at the residence of her brother in law Barnett Salmon 58 Warrington Crescent Maida Vale, Julia (nee Gluckstein) wife of Abraham Abrahams of 31 Middlesex Street age 45

Probate
Abraham Abrahams 221 Goldhurst Terrace Hampstead Middx died 16 Dec 1925 Probate to Alfred Salmon chairman of public company Effects £942.16s 9d

In the 1911 Census Abraham Abrahams is at 221 Goldhurst Terrace Hampstead with his son in law Alfred Salmon and daughter Hannah- he recorded 10 children born 4 dead 6 living

I will post further.