Agnes Smith - Birth Record

[Ashleigh_]

I have found this.

It relates to Thomas Ardreys death and has an address which may be useful.

Service No: 22876
Age: 36
Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment, 4th Bn.

(Served as HARDY). Son of Thomas and Ellen Ardrey, of 9, Worth Village, York; husband of Agnes Hayes (formerly Ardrey), of 6, Sandywell St., Springfield Lane, Salford, Manchester.

That could be the Yorkshire connection,where his parents lived.

Hi pamelawagater - I know about this already, his mother is recorded as living with home of her daughters in Keighley after she became a widow which again is where the Yorkshire connection might come in.

[Pamelawagster]

1911

Agnes is living as Agnes Hardy with Albert Hayes and 4 children .3 names Hardy & 1 Hayes.

39;Springfield Terrace Salford.


This looks like the birth reg that goes with baptism in message #3

First name(s) AGNES
Last name SMITH
Birth year 1882
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Shields
District Salford
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8D
Page 19

[Ashleigh_]

Agnes Hayes and her daughter Mary Elizabeth Ardrey are on the 1939 register at Salford where, strangely, Agnes's date of birth is given as 25 December 1881

That’s interesting - the birth recorded on the death certificate is in the same quarter but would make it more difficult if trying to order a certificate without the index numbers.

[almach]

"UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 for Thomas Hardy"

He's entered as Thomas Hardy alias Ardry [sic] his effects were sent to his widow Agnes Ardrey

[wimsey]

Agnes Hayes and her daughter Mary Elizabeth Ardrey are on the 1939 register at Salford where, strangely, Agnes's date of birth is given as 25 December 1881

of course the 1939 register is well known for having day and month correct but year out by one

so 25 December 1882 might be a possibility

[Megan Roberts]

Having read through all the various answers:

1. The date of death that you have started with comes from Agnes's death certificate. That would have been given to the registrar by whoever registered her death. So who was that? Was it a family member?

2. The 1939 register information that Wimsey found in post 10 is more likely to have come from Agnes herself.

3. I think that a good possibility is that her birth registration can be found by combining the information from posts 3, 6 and 12.


I also had a quick look to see if I could see any likely siblings for Agnes, which might help looking in Censuses. Assuming that her mother was Mary Shields then following births were registered in Salford:

Michael Francis 1875 died 1878
Joseph 1878
Elizabeth 1881

[almach]

Agnes Smith. Dec 1882 Salford Mmn Shields

Possible marriage. John Smith/Mary Shields Jun 1875. Sculcoates (East Riding of Yorkshire)

Unfortunately I don't think that marriage is the right one, the parish record is on FMP and both John and Mary were in their 50's, so it's doubtful they'd still be having children 1878 - 1882.

I did find this 1881 census (before Agnes was born)and thought it worth consideration.

4 Franchise Terr, Pendleton, Salford. RG11; Piece: 3941; Folio: 102; Page: 23
John Smith 57, gen.labourer (unemployed), Ireland
Mary Smith 45, Ireland
Mary Smith 17, flax mill operative, Ireland
Rose Ann Smith 15, flax mill operative, Ireland
John Smith 11, Ireland
Joseph Smith 2, Pendleton
Elizabeth Smith, 15 days, Pendleton

I looked for a marriage in Ireland between a John Smith and Mary Shields, did't find one. However there are these baptisms but MMN is SHELLS.
Mary Smith 5th Mar 1864, St Mary's Meath dau of John Smith and Mary Shells
Rose Ann Smith 14th Oct 1865, Drogheda, County Meath, dau of John Smith and Mary Shells Smith.
John Smith, 28th Jul 1870, SAINT MARYS, MEATH, son of John Smith and Mary Shells.

I haven't as yet found the family on later censuses.

[Ashleigh_]

Unfortunately I don't think that marriage is the right one, the parish record is on FMP and both John and Mary were in their 50's, so it's doubtful they'd still be having children 1878 - 1882.

I did find this 1881 census (before Agnes was born)and thought it worth consideration.

4 Franchise Terr, Pendleton, Salford. RG11; Piece: 3941; Folio: 102; Page: 23
John Smith 57, gen.labourer (unemployed), Ireland
Mary Smith 45, Ireland
Mary Smith 17, flax mill operative, Ireland
Rose Ann Smith 15, flax mill operative, Ireland
John Smith 11, Ireland
Joseph Smith 2, Pendleton
Elizabeth Smith, 15 days, Pendleton

I looked for a marriage in Ireland between a John Smith and Mary Shields, did't find one. However there are these baptisms but MMN is SHELLS.
Mary Smith 5th Mar 1864, St Mary's Meath dau of John Smith and Mary Shells
Rose Ann Smith 14th Oct 1865, Drogheda, County Meath, dau of John Smith and Mary Shells Smith.
John Smith, 28th Jul 1870, SAINT MARYS, MEATH, son of John Smith and Mary Shells.

I haven't as yet found the family on later censuses.

Thanks everyone. I’ll look into these possibilities. I probably should have mentioned that I was told that Agnes was catholic. What is the likelihood that her first name wasn’t Agnes and that was a middle name? That being said, from her marriage in 1901 onwards she is always referred to as Agnes and nothing else.

[Megan Roberts]

The baptism in post 3 is a from a Catholic church because it uses Latin.

[Ashleigh_]

The baptism in post 3 is a from a Catholic church because it uses Latin.

I feel reluctant regarding the baptism record for 1882 because that would have made her 18 when she married in 1901, the certificate states she was 19 and her headstone says that she was 88 when she died in July 1970. If she was born in 1882 she would have been 87. Although we have two different DOBs for her, they both state 1881 as the year of birth. Can that really be a coincidence?