Whole family dissapear

[Ashleigh_]

Hi there,

I'm hoping for a little help.

I've been working on my family tree and i'm currently looking at my 3 x G Grandfather Joseph Briggs born 1850 in Northumberland. He married Isabella Connor in 1872, but she died as in 1911 it is noted he is a widower and living with his daughter Violet Briggs (1892), daughter Margaret J Hands (nee Briggs - born 1879), Margaret's husband Thomas (1875), their children Joseph (1901), John (1905) and Annie Isabella (1909).

After 1911 they all disappear and I can't find them anywhere. I have removed the area of Northumberland from the searches to see if they moved out of the area but I can't find anything.

I've found a possible death register for Margaret in 1946 in Gateshead but where was she between 1911 and 1946? and her family too?

[Pam Downes]

When giving census information, you also need to give at least the place people were living in, and ideally, the census reference. This makes it much easier for anyone to help you.
So in 1911 the family were living in Wickham, Durham, and the reference is RG14PN30496 SN167. (Thankfully, in view of the length of the complete reference for 1911 you only need the RG, PN, and the last SN numbers.)

Then you need to find out the actual years of birth of the people you name. Ages in censuses can be out by a minimum of a year, sometimes much more.
For births prior to 1912 always use the Historical Indexes at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ because the earlier GRO Index didn't include the mother's maiden name.
That's the same address you use for ordering BMD certificates, and for the entries in the Historical Indexes there's automatic links. Births in that Index go up to 1918/1919, and for later ones use https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

I started with Joseph Hands, who's 10 in the 1911 census. Mother's maiden name Briggs, index says birth registered June quarter 1900, Gateshead registration district. You have forty-two days in which to register a birth which means he was born anytime between about 14 February and 30 June. FreeBMD can also be useful in confirming you have the correct person because if you click on the registration district in a record it gives a link to all the places in that district.
That enabled to look in the 1939 Register for Joseph Hands, born 1900. There's one whose birthdate fits, and the place he's living, Ryton, is in Gateshead registration district, meaning that he didn't move very far from where he was living in 1911.
This would indicate to me that the family probably also stayed 'local' to the area.

Will delve a little more.

Pam

[almach]

A Violet Briggs married Ernest Young June qrt 1925 Gateshead registration district.

1939 Register. 59, Twizel Ave, Blaydon
Ernest Young born 23rd June 1893, a miner.
Violet Young born 27th June 1893.
A closed record (which could be a son or daughter)

[Pam Downes]

Although the Historical Deaths on that GRO link I gave you go up to 1957, it's much easier to search FreeBMD for deaths (from 1866 when age at death was first recorded in th original GRO Index) because you're not restricted by a year plus/minus two years.
FreeBMD show a Joseph Briggs, aged 74, death registered Gateshead registration district, March quarter 1923.
I checked https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills to see if he'd left a will. Make sure you select the correct tab (1858-1996), and when you get the results don't be put off by the names on the first page; go to page 3. That will give you help in searching for a possible marriage year for Violet.

The only drawback to FreeBMD is that it is still a work in progress, although most of the original GRO Index has been transcribed to 1983. So if you can, especially if you can't find an entry, you should check the full index on a site such as Findmypast or Ancestry, either of which may be viewable for free at your local library if you don;t have a subscription.

ADDED: Just spotted that Alma's given the game away re Violet's marriage.

Pam

[almach]

Burial records for Thomas and Margaret Jane Hands and their son, John.

https://www.gravestonephotos.com/publ...hp?name=675434

https://www.gravestonephotos.com/publ...hp?name=675436

https://www.gravestonephotos.com/publ...hp?name=675435

ADDED: Just spotted that Alma's given the game away re Violet's marriage.

Oops, sorry for spoiling your fun Pam

[Pam Downes]

Oops, sorry for spoiling your fun Pam

It wasn't a case of spoiling my fun. Alma. I was just trying to give Ashleigh a bit of practice in checking for stuff in the Historical births and then on FreeBMD in an attempt to find Violet in 1939.

Pam

[almach]

It wasn't a case of spoiling my fun. Alma. I was just trying to give Ashleigh a bit of practice in checking for stuff in the Historical births and then on FreeBMD in an attempt to find Violet in 1939.

Pam

I'll be impressed by anyone who can find Margaret and Thomas Hands on the 1939 register. I've just spent about 30mins searching with no luck.

[Pam Downes]

I'll be impressed by anyone who can find Margaret and Thomas Hands on the 1939 register. I've just spent about 30mins searching with no luck.

Ditto.
Either their surname is mis-spelt, dates of birth are totally wrong (though I had no luck searching without a date of birth), they've been redacted by mistake, or else their page is missing.

Folowing your brilliant find of the graves, I even tried earching for plain Thomas and plain Margaret in Swalwell and Whickham without any luck. Interestingly, Swalwell as a place doesn't seem to exist in the 1939 Register, so I wondered if it was lumped in with Whickham. Just don't fancy going through the 32 pages for Whickham looking for likely candidates, and to see if any of the addresses mention Swalwell.
However, bearing in mind that Swalwell doesn't seem to exist as a separate place, I do wonder if the original book for it has been lost. See 6.3. in
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/h...h-the-register

Pam

[almach]

Ditto.
However, bearing in mind that Swalwell doesn't seem to exist as a separate place, I do wonder if the original book for it has been lost. See 6.3. in
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/h...h-the-register

Pam

That explanation could be right.

If this is the correct marriage for Annie Isabella ......I cannot find her or John, perhaps they too were living in Swalwell.

Marriages Sep 1932. Hands Annie I, Bell John Gateshead 10a1850

[Ashleigh_]

It wasn't a case of spoiling my fun. Alma. I was just trying to give Ashleigh a bit of practice in checking for stuff in the Historical births and then on FreeBMD in an attempt to find Violet in 1939.

Pam

Thank you so much to all of you. It was really starting to bug me about what happened. I did see a death record for a John Hands who died age 24 but I put it to one side as it’s such a young age but it seems it was the correct record.

I will still search for Violet’s marriage to practice to use Historical births and FreeBMD and get my head around those systems.

Thanks again!