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  1. #1

    Unhappy Looking for my GGGrandmother in Bolton

    Looking for my great great grandmother born about 1853 Bolton UK. I think she may have given birth to my great grandfather in Prestwich Mental Asylum. She was very young and unwed when she gave birth (I ordered my great grandfather’s birth certificate) I can find her at 8 years of age in 1861 census, then I find an admission to the mental asylum a few days before his birth. I’m hoping to get some better records, or burial information for her.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Welcome to the British Genealogy forums
    I am another born in Bolton.

    Can you give us the name of your great great grandmother and your great grandfather (+ his date of birth). Also the references for the 1861 census RG/Piece/Folio/page numbers. Then our friendly and very helpful members can start trying to crack this mystery for you.

    I have also moved your post to the Lancashire forum where it will generate more interest and given it the title "Looking for my GGGrandmother in Bolton"
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  3. #3
    Growing old Disgracefully
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    Mental Asylum's and WorkHouses where sometimes used as Hospitals in those days as there where no real Hospitals.

  4. #4

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    Girls were sometimes confined to such places for having a child while unwed.
    As Chris said, it's much easier to help you if we know who, when and where.
    If you are not sure what would be helpful have a look at this post HERE.

    I went to school in Bolton for 4 days, once...

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    Welcome to the British Genealogy forums
    I am another born in Bolton.

    Can you give us the name of your great great grandmother and your great grandfather (+ his date of birth). Also the references for the 1861 census RG/Piece/Folio/page numbers. Then our friendly and very helpful members can start trying to crack this mystery for you.

    I have also moved your post to the Lancashire forum where it will generate more interest and given it the title "Looking for my GGGrandmother in Bolton"
    Christina
    Thanks for your quick response.
    My great great grandmothers name was Elizabeth Sumner. The 1861 census references R.G. 9/3115 76 18
    It lists Elizabeth as 8 years. Her father William is listed as widower. Siblings James, Alice and Ann.
    My great grandfathers name was Frederick Sumner DOB 23/6/1863 no father listed on birth certificate
    I find him in the 1871 census living at the Bolton Union Workhouse (7 years old) no record of Elizabeth there in that census. R.G. 10/3919 153 22
    The 1881 Census has him living with his uncle James(from first census) R.G.11/3782 38 16

    I have searched records for what happened to Elizabeth after giving birth to Frederick. I found admission to the Prestwich Asylum on 18 June 1863 with death date 20 Sept 1867. Nothing to tell me the age of the Elizabeth, but it is just before my great grandfathers birth.

    My mother only knew history back to her grandparents Frederick and Jane. My aunt (still living) tells me it was all a big family secret in her recollection.

    My grandmothers address on Frederick’s birth certificate is 53 Shaw Street. Great Bolton.
    Any insight is appreciated.

  6. #6
    Famous for offering help & advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by JReiblich View Post
    My great great grandmothers name was Elizabeth Sumner. The 1861 census references R.G. 9/3115 76 18
    It lists Elizabeth as 8 years. Her father William is listed as widower. Siblings James, Alice and Ann.
    My great grandfathers name was Frederick Sumner DOB 23/6/1863 no father listed on birth certificate
    I find him in the 1871 census living at the Bolton Union Workhouse (7 years old) no record of Elizabeth there in that census. R.G. 10/3919 153 22
    I'm just wondering if you might have two Elizabeths mixed up.

    Obviously I haven't seen Frederick's birth certificate, so I'm taking your word for it that his mother was called Elizabeth. But if she was giving birth in 1863, I don't think she'll be the one who was only 8 years old in 1861.

    Again, I haven't seen the death certificate for the Elizabeth who died in 1867 (which would give her age at death), but if she's the one who died in the Manchester district, Sep qtr 1867, 8d 311, then her age is given in the GRO index as 48.

    So if this one is Frederick's mother, then you need to be looking for an Elizabeth aged around 42 in the 1861 census.

  7. #7

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    I agree that that age seems off.
    Things I’m sure of, the Frederick living with his uncle in the 1881 census is my great grandfather. I ordered his birth certificate and his mother was Elizabeth unwed. No age given. I’m quite certain he is the child in the workhouse as well.
    Things I’m not sure of are the Asylum connection, and is it possible that the Sumner family in the 1861 census just coincidentally has children of the same names and James age is matching with the 81 census?
    I see there are many Summers listed in the records, so it must have been a common name.

  8. #8
    marj
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    lancsopc has this marriage



    Marriage: 24 Feb 1868 St Thomas the Martyr, Upholland, Lancashire, England
    James Sumner - (X), 25, Collier, Bachelor, Up Holland
    Margaret Birchall - 19, Spinster, Up Holland
    Groom's Father: John Sumner, Deceased
    Bride's Father: James Birchall, Deceased
    Witness: William Tyrer; Thomas Rigby
    Married by banns by: Charles Bisset, Incumbent
    Register: Marriages 1863 - 1882, Page 68, Entry 136
    Source: LDS Film 1657546

    Marj

  9. #9

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    I'm afraid that once a query catches our attention, there are always more questions...

    Does Frederick's birth certificate say where he was born, and who registered the birth?

    If you don't have it, I think that you need that 1867 death cert for Elizabeth. It will confirm location, etc, and might shed more light on whether she's yours.

    One of the best sources for Workhouse information is The Workhouse HERE.

  10. #10
    marj
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    Baptism: 26 Jun 1836 St Laurence, Chorley, Lancashire, England
    Elizabeth Sumner - [Child] of John Sumner & Ellen
    Abode: Chorley
    Occupation: Wheelwright
    Baptised by: Wm Wignall
    Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1851, Page 20
    Source: LDS Film 1517686

    Baptism: 28 Jun 1840 Parish Church, Rivington, Lancashire, England
    James Sumner - son of John Sumner & Ellen
    Abode: Rivington
    Occupation: Wheelwright
    Baptised by: J. Jackson
    Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1847, Page 177, Entry 1413
    Source: LDS Film 1408886

    Possible baptism on lancsopc


    Marj

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