Looking for my GGGrandmother in Bolton

[JReiblich]

I'm afraid that once a query catches our attention, there are always more questions...

Does Frederick's birth certificate say where he was born, and who registered the birth?

If you don't have it, I think that you need that 1867 death cert for Elizabeth. It will confirm location, etc, and might shed more light on whether she's yours.

One of the best sources for Workhouse information is The Workhouse HERE.

Frederic (no k) Sumner
Registration district: Bolton
Birth in sub district of: Bolton East in county of Lancaster
Signature of registrar: John S Scowcroft (I think)

[Lesley Robertson]

Thanks. Does it say who informed the Registrar? It's often a family member.

[arthurk]

Possible 1851 census for the following:

Baptism: 26 Jun 1836 St Laurence, Chorley, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Sumner - [Child] of John Sumner & Ellen
Abode: Chorley
Occupation: Wheelwright
Baptised by: Wm Wignall
Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1851, Page 20
Source: LDS Film 1517686

Baptism: 28 Jun 1840 Parish Church, Rivington, Lancashire, England
James Sumner - son of John Sumner & Ellen
Abode: Rivington
Occupation: Wheelwright
Baptised by: J. Jackson
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1847, Page 177, Entry 1413
Source: LDS Film 1408886

Possible baptism on lancsopc

Marj

HO107/2262 fo533 p12 - household of Ellen Sumner (widow, 41) in Rivington

Also 2 younger children (Stephen 8, Emmanuel 7) and a visitor.

[arthurk]

Possible 1871 census for this Elizabeth in Bury, as a servant in a Hoyle household:

RG10/3958 fo23 p39 - surname looks like Summers, but birthplace is Rivington, which could match with her earliest memory.

[JReiblich]

Thanks. Does it say who informed the Registrar? It's often a family member.

Signature, description and residence of informant:
E. Sumner
Mother
53 Shaw St
Great Bolton

Of course none of this is the original birth certificate. It’s certified copy dated 23/12/2016 when I ordered it.
It also says when and where born 53 Shaw Street.

Does anyone know what the address of the Asylum was? When I google that address it brings up Shaw ROAD not street. I don’t know if that’s the same?

[loobylou]

In #1 you say Frederic was born in Prestwich asylum yet in #11 he's registered in East Bolton. Those 2 bits of info don't match. I can't find a burial for Elizabeth on Manchester Burials. You'll find loads of info/images about the asylum on the Manchester City Council website. Well worth a look.

[arthurk]

As far as I can see, 53 Shaw Street, Great Bolton and Prestwich Mental Asylum are entirely separate places, about 8 miles apart (as loobylou has also pointed out while I've been typing this).

And I could be wrong, but I think a birth in an asylum would more likely be registered by a member of staff than the mother, who by definition might be deemed incapable of doing something like that. So again, are you mixing up two Elizabeths, and is the one in the asylum just a coincidence?

As it happens, 53 Shaw Street is just round the corner from Bolton Workhouse, but I haven't seen anything on the Workhouses website to indicate that there was any connection.

[marj]

!
Burial: 25 Sep 1867 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Sumner -
Age: 49
Abode: formerly of Salford, from the Prestwich Lunatic Asylum
Buried by: E. T. Billings
Register: Burials 1861 - 1872, Page 191, Entry 1525
Source: LDS Film 2356234
There was 1 match for this search!


Marj

[arthurk]

As it happens, 53 Shaw Street is just round the corner from Bolton Workhouse, but I haven't seen anything on the Workhouses website to indicate that there was any connection.

The 1861 and 1871 census entries for 53 Shaw Street appear to show ordinary working people, with nothing to indicate a connection to the workhouse. None of them were called Sumner, but it looks the sort of place where people might have moved fairly frequently. (I've seen this in my family in Leeds.)

1861: RG9/2827 fo91 p46
1871: RG10/3939 fo97 p50

[loobylou]

Excellent find marj. Manchester Burials only record council run cemeteries. Formerly of Salford would suggest to me it's a different Elizabeth. Elizabeth's father is stated as William not John. I think there is a bit of confusion here.