Confused!

[mrs.s2012]

Not sure if I'm posting this in the right section but I wanted to run something past you guys as I'm getting myself into a right muddle!
Ok so my Great Grandad is Alfred Albert Collingbourne b1882. I know he married my Great Nan Rose Mary Fitzgerald in 1904 and I have found that marriage record, it says his father is Alfred Albert Collingbourne, an Engineer.
I have found the family on the census records and it looks like that Alfred Albert snr was married 3 times. I found marriage records that seemed to back his up, first marriage was to a Sarah Ann Birch, second was to a Martha Adelaide Pealling and third was to an Ellen Williams?
Now I'm confused because I'm trying to figure out who his father was and entries are different on each marriage record. On the first marriage in 1871 it says his father is George Collingbourne, a Labourer. In the second marriage record it lists his father as John Collingbourne, a Dairy man. In the third it lists his father as John Collingbourne, a Commerical Traveller??
I also found a baptism record for an Alfred Albert and it lists his parents as Harriett and George - a milkman?
So now I am confused. pretty sure his father was probably George the milkman but not sure why it says different things on the marriage certs? I want to be sure I have matched him to the correct wives and that I have the right father before I continue?
I hope this rambling makes sense!
Opinions welcomed!

[Megan Roberts]

Do you have the marriage certificates for the 2nd and the 3rd marriages and if so how do they describe the groom? In other words is he described as a widower? Have you found the deaths of wives nos 1 and 2?

If you do a global search for Alfred Albert Collingbourne, there is one person with that name combination and that is your great grandfather. In terms of births registered, his registered in Poplar in 1882 as Alfred Albert, but if you look before that they are all registered as Alfred only:

1840 & 1849 in Stepney and 1849 in St Anne, Limehouse, Middlesex.

So there were 3 Alfred Collingbournes born about the same time in the same area. One born in 1840 was the son of George and Harriet and George was a milkman, as can be seen from the 1841 Census.

[Megan Roberts]

I have had another look and can see that in the 1841 census Alfred, son of Harriet and George, was said to be born in 1841, but there after in later censuses his year is said to 1850.

I have found him in the 1891 census with wife No 2. RG12 Piece 323 Folio 74 Page 42, and I am sure that it is the right one, based on the names of his children. From that I have found that Sarah Ann (wife No 1) died in 1878 in Mile End Town.

Its not unknown for official records to be wrong. I have my grt grt grandparents marriage certificate from the GRO which states that her father's name was James Jones. I searched for years for him and never found him because he did not exist. It was only when a cousin found the original church register that we realised that his name was Edward Jones, and the records had been incorrectly transcribed.

The other issue to remember is dont assume that your ancestor could read, or that they had a copy of the certificate. The Certificate cost money and if they did not need it they were unlikely to fork out for it. If they could not read they could not check that what the registrar was writing was correct.

[wimsey]

the person who married Ellen Williams in Poplar, 1908, was Alfred WILLIAM Collingbourne

the marriage to Sarah Ann Birch, 1871, Mile End, was just Alfred Collingbourne

the marriage to Martha Adelaide Pealling, 1879, Stepney, was also just Alfred Collingbourne


that 1871 marriage seems to have 3 separate entries with different spellings

Sarah Ann Birch
Sarah Ann Burch
Sarah Ann Burah

[wimsey]

I'm not finding a birth registration for an Alfred Albert Collingbourne in 1882

an Alfred FREDERIC Collingbourne was born 3rd quarter 1881, Stepney, mother's maiden name PEALLING

other Collingbourne/Pealling births:
George Albert Collingbourne 1883, Stepney
Henry Alfred Collingbourne 1880, Stepney

[Dundee10]

I have had another look and can see that in the 1841 census Alfred, son of Harriet and George, was said to be born in 1841, but there after in later censuses his year is said to 1850.

There were two Alfreds, one born in 1840 and probably died 1841, and the second was born in 1849. His birth reg has his mother's maiden surname indexed as GEORGE but I think this is probably just an indexing mistake. His baptism details are in line with that birth reg.

In terms of births registered, his registered in Poplar in 1882 as Alfred Albert...

I cannot see this birth reg.?

Alfred Snr's children:

COLLINGBOURNE, ALFRED WILLIAM (BURCH)
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 591 (died 1872)

COLLINGBOURNE, SARAH ANN (BURCH)
GRO Reference: 1875 J Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 490

COLLINGBOURNE, ROSINA (BURCH)
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 480 (died 1878)

COLLINGBOURNE, HENRY ALFRED (TEALLING)
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 466

COLLINGBOURNE, ALFRED FREDERIC (PEALLING)
GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 439

COLLINGBOURNE, GEORGE ALBERT (PEALLING)
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 475 (died 1883)

COLLINGBOURNE, ELEANOR ELIZABETH (PEALLING)
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 425

COLLINGBOURNE, HARRIET MAY (PEALLING)
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 470 (died 1891)

COLLINGBOURNE, WILLIAM ERNEST (PEALING)
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 642 (died 1889)

COLLINGBOURNE, FLORENCE MAUD (PEALLING)
GRO Reference: 1890 S Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 619 (died 1890)

COLLINGBOURNE, CHARLES(PEELING)
GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 678 (died 1893)

COLLINGBOURNE, JOHN (PEALLING)
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 608 (died 1900)

I cannot see Arthur's 1874 birth reg.in the GRO indexes. In 1891 he is with his grandmother Harriet.

[Dundee10]

This may be George's death:

COLLINGBROWN, GEORGE
Age 49
GRO Reference: 1854 S Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 523

If so then Alfred wouldn't have known him very well and has probably just forgotten his name over time.

[wimsey]

1881 census - Limehouse, Belgrave Street - RG11; piece 464; folio 6; page 9

Alfred COLLINGBOURN - 31 - born Limehouse
Martha - 21 - born Mile End
Arthur - 7 - born Limehouse
Sarah Ann - 5 - born Limehouse
Henry - 0 - born Limehouse

[mrs.s2012]

Do you have the marriage certificates for the 2nd and the 3rd marriages and if so how do they describe the groom? In other words is he described as a widower? Have you found the deaths of wives nos 1 and 2?

If you do a global search for Alfred Albert Collingbourne, there is one person with that name combination and that is your great grandfather. In terms of births registered, his registered in Poplar in 1882 as Alfred Albert, but if you look before that they are all registered as Alfred only:

1840 & 1849 in Stepney and 1849 in St Anne, Limehouse, Middlesex.

So there were 3 Alfred Collingbournes born about the same time in the same area. One born in 1840 was the son of George and Harriet and George was a milkman, as can be seen from the 1841 Census.

yes in the second two it does describe him as a widower so it ties in. I also found death records for both wives, Sarah Ann in 1878 and Martha in 1905.

[mrs.s2012]

I'm not finding a birth registration for an Alfred Albert Collingbourne in 1882

an Alfred FREDERIC Collingbourne was born 3rd quarter 1881, Stepney, mother's maiden name PEALLING

other Collingbourne/Pealling births:
George Albert Collingbourne 1883, Stepney
Henry Alfred Collingbourne 1880, Stepney

yes this was the only one I could find too... so assumed that was him, he appears as just Alfred on the census and only Alfred Albert on his marriage record and on his Children's marriage record. I assumed he had just adopted a different middle name as I know people often did that then.