One for the sleuths - Henry John Southwood

[David Tuson]

Hi
I am struggling to fine the birth for Henry John SOUTHWOOD

On the 1881 census (RG11; 3944; 115; 17) His age on both the image and transcription (findmypast) is 54
On the 1891 census (RG12; 3221; 74; 3) His age on both is 44
On the GRO for his death in 1893 his age is 46.

So I would have expected his birth to be around 1847 (with the assumption that the 1881 is incorrect) - but I cannot find any records for his birth. I've used a few wild cards for the name. And I extended the search from just Devon.

On his marriage in 1869 to Margaret Mary Barham his father's name was transcribed as John SOUTHWOOD.
So I tried finding the combination of Henry (child) and John (father) on 1851 census. Again no success.

In desperation I tried looking for a birth in 1827 which I found. But when following that family through census returns his occupation was Gas Meter Reader whereas he was a Printer Compositor on the 1881 and 1891 censuses.


David

[Pam Downes]

Not all births prior to 1874 were registered.

1881 census says Henry's age is 34, but the mark makes it look like 54. See the way 3 is written for Elizabeth Henshaw aged 73, and also for the 13 total number of females on page.

'Missing' details from your post :
1881 and 1891 census Henry says he was born Exeter, Devon.
Married Margaret at St Andrew, Holborn. (London)
Occupation on marriage certificate is compositor, which matches that in 1881 and 1891. His father's occupation is carpenter.

My great-grandfather (born 1830) lead me a merry dance because he was illegitimate and in 1861 (after leaving home) he reverted to his birth surname. Is there a similar case with Henry? i.e. his parents married after his birth; he's on the 1851 and 1861 census with them with his mother's married name, and then in 1881 he's back to his original birth surname.

Can't find Henry on 1871. Thought he might have been London but daughter Emma's birth was registered Hackney registration district June quarter 1870, so he might have been in Lancashire. Daughter Susannah's birth registered December quarter 1882, Salford registration district.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

Might be worth seeing what else you can find on this one.
1851 census. HO107/1527 folio 41 page 74
Living in the parish of St Andrew Holborn. Henry John Milson, aged 6. Born Exeter. Father listed as James Milson, compositor.

Um, perhaps not. Birth registration of a Henry John Milsom, December quarter 1844 Exeter registration district. Mother's maiden name Cantle. Sister Mary Jane's birth registered (again as Milsom) September quarter 1846 West London registration district. (In spite of the name, West London is correct registration district for Holborn area.)
James Milsom and Eliza Cantle on same page, marriage registrations March quarter 1842 Bath registration distrct.
On the other hand, Henry John could have plucked the Southwood surname out of thin air, perhaps it's worth continuing with the Milsom/Milson family in 1861 and 1871.

Pam

[helachau]

Both FMP and FreeBMD have the birth registration of a Henry Gibbs Southwood, Jun Qtr 1847, reg. dist. Exeter, vol 10 page 90. However, unable to find on the GRO to establish if mother's maiden name present.
But the GRO has a Henry Gibbs Gibbs, Jun Qtr, 1847, Exeter, vol 10 page 90 who is probably Henry Gibbs Southwood incorrectly transcribed. No mother's maiden name for this entry.

Trying to establish the parentage of 3 yr old Henry Southwood, grand-son, born Exeter, on the '51 Census. (ref HO107 1869 328 21)

[Pam Downes]

Excellent spot, helachau.

To add to that, I can offer - baptism of Henry Gibbs Southwood, son of Emma, single woman, on 31 October 1849 in the parish of St Olave, Exeter. Also baptised on the same day, same place, was Elizabeth Ann Gibbs Southwood, daughter of Emma Southwood, single woman. There's an Emma Southwood living in the same household of the Joseph and Elizabeth of 1851 in the 1841 census. HO107/267/11 folio 9 page 13

Pam

[Pam Downes]

Further to my post #5 - burial of Emma Southwood, aged 23, of Bartholomews Yard, on 1 September 1849 at St Olave, Exeter.

Birth registration of Elizabeth Ann Gibbs, mother's maiden name Southwood, March quarter 1849, Exeter registration district.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

Simply must go do some proper work but -

reckon the granddaughter Ann in 1851 is aged 4.
Baptism of an Ann Southwood, daughter of John and Ann, 16 July 1846, parish of St Thomas, Exeter. John's occupation is a joiner.
Think back to when Henry married - said his father was John, a carpenter. So did Henry go live with John and Ann at some time? Am I trying to join too many dots?

Pam
who is definitely off to do proper work

[helachau]

I have been doing some " … proper work." ie. planting sprouts on the allotment!!. Sometimes there ARE more important things than chasing elusive individuals reluctant to disclose their pedigree.

But I think you are very much on the right lines.

[Jomot1]

Both FMP and FreeBMD have the birth registration of a Henry Gibbs Southwood, Jun Qtr 1847, reg. dist. Exeter, vol 10 page 90. However, unable to find on the GRO to establish if mother's maiden name present.
But the GRO has a Henry Gibbs Gibbs, Jun Qtr, 1847, Exeter, vol 10 page 90 who is probably Henry Gibbs Southwood incorrectly transcribed. No mother's maiden name for this entry.

Looking at FreeBMD the original handwritten index has both entires - Henry Gibbs Southwood AND Henry Gibbs Gibbs.

My interpretation would therefore be that the father is named on the certificate but as the parents are not married the GRO has indexed it under the mother's surname with no mmn

EDIT: But reading it again her surname was Southwood, so maybe not!

[Pam Downes]

Looking at FreeBMD the original handwritten index has both entires - Henry Gibbs Southwood AND Henry Gibbs Gibbs.

My interpretation would therefore be that the father is named on the certificate but as the parents are not married the GRO has indexed it under the mother's surname with no mmn

EDIT: But reading it again her surname was Southwood, so maybe not!

Your interpretation is sort-of spot on, Jomot1.

I have exactly the same scenario with another of my great-grandfathers (not the one mentioned in post #2). Born in 1843, parents not married. Mother registered the birth, listed as Sarah Smith. Father named as William Brown. Child listed in
GRO Historical births as John Brown Brown with no mother's maiden name, but in original GRO Index (so FreeBMD, FMP, etc) as John Brown Smith, as well as John Brown Brown. (The latter entry I've only just found. After about eighteen years!)

Pam