One for the sleuths - Henry John Southwood

[helachau]

John Southwood, carpenter/builder, + Ann Southwood on '51 Census - HO017 1867 145 29 and '61 Census - RG09 1389 50 27

But no family.

[helachau]

John Southwood and Ann on '71 census RG10 2054 64 18 and '81 Census RG12 1682 54 7.

John's death on Jul 9th 1881 at Cowick Street reported in the Express and Echo, 11 July 1881.

Ann Southwood on '91 Census still at Cowick Street RG12 1682 54 7

But nothing on any Censuses '61 - '91 to link to Henry John to this pair..

[Pam Downes]

Thanks for the census refs, etc, for John and Ann, helachau.

Haven't had time since this morning to look further, but am now going to leave it until David reports back on our findings.

Pam

[helachau]

Exeter Baptisms (FMP images)
John, son of Joseph and Elizabeth Southwood, bap 20 July 1814, St. David's Hill, occupation wire worker

John, son of John and Mary Southwood, bap 25 Jun 1815, Cowic/Cowie? street, occupation joiner

Emma, dau of Joseph and Elizabeth Southwood, bap 21 Jan 1824, St. David's Hill, occupation wireworker

More dots to join!! I think John, son of Joseph/Elizabeth, is in Redruth on the 1851 Census.

[helachau]

Exeter Baptisms (FMP images)
John, son of Philip and Hannah Southwood, bap 17 Aug 1788, St. Thomas, Exeter
Joseph, son of Philip and Hannah Southwood, bap 21 Oct 1790, St. Thomas, Exeter.

An advert in the Exeter Flying Post, 8 Oct 1818, referring to the sale of house and other property in St. Thomas refers to " … and now in the possession of Mr Philip Southwood, sizer, and his tenants".

Sizer - applies size to cloth in manufacture

[David Tuson]

Exeter Baptisms (FMP images)
John, son of Joseph and Elizabeth Southwood, bap 20 July 1814, St. David's Hill, occupation wire worker

John, son of John and Mary Southwood, bap 25 Jun 1815, Cowic/Cowie? street, occupation joiner

Emma, dau of Joseph and Elizabeth Southwood, bap 21 Jan 1824, St. David's Hill, occupation wireworker

More dots to join!! I think John, son of Joseph/Elizabeth, is in Redruth on the 1851 Census.

Definitely more dots to join ---- see my message below as you have confirmed my findings of a few minutes ago.

[David Tuson]

Hello ALL

Many thanks for all your replies. I appreciate the time you have invested on my behalf.

Pam, I had closer look at the 1881 image and spotted my (and the transcriber’s) error with Henry’s age. I am annoyed with myself as I transcribe records for FreeCEN so should have spotted the other ‘3’s on the page. But as I had reconciled myself to a birth of around 1847 not 1827 so had focused on that year.

Where did you find the marriage certificate? I could only find a transcription?

Like everyone there doesn’t appear to be a record of Henry in the 1871 census. Perhaps he was en route to Salford!

I checked the 1861 and 1871 census returns for Henry Milsom but discounted him as he was married to Jane and still living in London.

I paid a little more attention to the Henry who was a grandson of Joseph and Elizabeth. On the GRO there is no mother’s name for his entry but for granddaughter Ann the mother’s name was recorded as SOUTHHARD. So making an assumption that both were illegitimate and that Emma was their mother, I decided to see if Henry could have been given into the care of John and Ann (even though he doesn’t appear in their 1861 census return). And did Joseph and Elizabeth decide to have the grandchildren baptised because of Emma’s death?

Turning to FamilySearch I discovered a birth for John Southwood with parents Joseph and Elizth. Alongside their entry was the little family tree symbol. Clicking on it I discovered that there was one source. Clicking on that it brought up Joseph and Elizabeth’s whole family whose members appear on the 1841 and 1851 returns that have been discovered.

So it seems that John and Ann are related to young Henry. It is possible they couldn’t have children of their own so they looked after Henry for a few years.

I would be interested in your thoughts on my comments above. My mind is a little muddled at the moment – the aftermath of spending two weeks with hyperactive grandchildren.

Regards, David

[helachau]

There's a Jane Southard, YoB 1841, visiting John and Ann on the 1881 Census.

[Pam Downes]

Hello ALL

Many thanks for all your replies. I appreciate the time you have invested on my behalf.

Pam, I had closer look at the 1881 image and spotted my (and the transcriber’s) error with Henry’s age. I am annoyed with myself as I transcribe records for FreeCEN so should have spotted the other ‘3’s on the page. But as I had reconciled myself to a birth of around 1847 not 1827 so had focused on that year.

Where did you find the marriage certificate? I could only find a transcription?

It's on Ancestry's London marriages 1813-1932.

Like everyone there doesn’t appear to be a record of Henry in the 1871 census. Perhaps he was en route to Salford!

Yep. On the overnight sleeper train.

I checked the 1861 and 1871 census returns for Henry Milsom but discounted him as he was married to Jane and still living in London.

Apologies for sending you on a wild goose chase, esoecially after we found more relevant stuff.

I paid a little more attention to the Henry who was a grandson of Joseph and Elizabeth. On the GRO there is no mother’s name for his entry but for granddaughter Ann the mother’s name was recorded as SOUTHHARD. So making an assumption that both were illegitimate and that Emma was their mother, I decided to see if Henry could have been given into the care of John and Ann (even though he doesn’t appear in their 1861 census return). And did Joseph and Elizabeth decide to have the grandchildren baptised because of Emma’s death?

Your bit about the mother's maiden name being Southhard threw me for a minute but you've got your knickers slightly twisted.
The granddaughter living with Joseph and Elizabeth in 1851 is Elizabeth Ann, daughter of Emma and sister to Henry.

The birth registration you found was for Ann, the daughter of John and Ann.
John Southward and Ann Southard married 13 September 1845. Parish register entry on FMP in Devon marriages.
John and Ann also had two other children - John, birth and death registrations both in September quarter 1849, and Louisa Mary, birth registered June quarter 1852, death registered June quarter 1853.
Baby Ann, birth registered September quarter 1846, death registered December quarter 1846.
Marriage and all births and deaths registered in St Thomas registration district.
Haven't checked but the children's burials will probably be on FMP in Devon burials, and you could also check for baptisms too.

Turning to FamilySearch I discovered a birth for John Southwood with parents Joseph and Elizth. Alongside their entry was the little family tree symbol. Clicking on it I discovered that there was one source. Clicking on that it brought up Joseph and Elizabeth’s whole family whose members appear on the 1841 and 1851 returns that have been discovered.

So it seems that John and Ann are related to young Henry. It is possible they couldn’t have children of their own so they looked after Henry for a few years.

Check out the stuff that FMP have for Devon - original PRs.
Have already covered John and Ann and children of their own.

I would be interested in your thoughts on my comments above. My mind is a little muddled at the moment – the aftermath of spending two weeks with hyperactive grandchildren.

Regards, David

[David Tuson]

Hello Pam
I have checked all the points that you mentioned on FMP in the Devon records. The only one I couldn't find was the Baptism for John in September quarter 1849.And I have verified the information that I found on FamilySearch. So I think I can start entering records into my database but with lots of comments stating all assumptions.
I did something that I'd like your comments on ...................

Given that my John Henry Southwood is most likely the Henry Gibbs, son of Emma, I did a query using that name for 1861 census.
I found a record RG09; 178; 39; 47 15 Dean Street, St Andrews, Holborn as follows;
William FREEDOM, age 20, born Hoxton, Middlesex, Occupation Printers Warehouseman
Elizabeth FREEDOM, age 23, born Exeter
Henry Gibbs, age 13, born Exeter, Nephew, Printers Reading Boy
Elizabeth Gibbs, age 11, born Exeter, Niece

Could this be John Henry Southwood who became a Printer Compositor?

I appreciate all your help, I have learned a few more things to be aware of whilst researching. And I have explored areas of findmypast that are new to me.
David