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  1. #1
    Geoff1959
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    Default SORTING OUT THE HAWK'S OR IS IT HAWKE'S?

    Hello I'm back again and hoping that someone researching the HAWK(E) name might be able to help me sort out and confirm that what i have is correct. I have doubts about the information that I have around John Hawk & Ann Reed and also William Hawk b 1809. What is the best way of cross checking info before 1837? How can you be sure that you have the right person? Another problem withe the Hawk(e)'s is the spelling of the surname which seems to change. For example on Bessie Hawkes bith certificte it is spelt HAWKE yet when she marries in the register it is shown as HAWK.
    So in essence its help around William Hawke 1809 that would be very much appreciated.
    I have attached an Image showing an extract of what I currently have.
    Thank you in advance.


  2. #2
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    Geoff - It's all very well including an image but when the image is quite blurred and therefore virtually unreadable it's not exactly helpful.

    From a previous thread https://www.british-genealogy.com/th...-HAWKES-again-!!
    I've found the starting point is John Hawk and Ann Reed (both born in St Mellion), and who from the Cornwall OPC site were married in St Stephens by Saltash in 1805.
    William was baptised in St Mellion in 1809.

    You are just so lucky in having the Cornwall OPC site.
    Based on the marriage date of John and Ann, search for baptisms for Hawk/Hawke children with parents John and Ann.
    Note the baptismal dates, and then work out if it's possible that children A and B and C can all be the children of the same couple.
    If it's not, then you need to look for further marriages for a John Hawke to an Ann/Anne/Hannah/Anna between about 1790 - 1830. This allows for a child being the last, or the first, in a marriage.
    Do the same for the next generation, just amend the dates.

    Don't worry about the spelling difference - surname spelling wasn't standardised until the end of the 1800s.

    Prior to 1837 you can't always be sure you have the correct people. It all depends how frequent a name is in the area you're searching. Sometimes there are clues in forenames, e.g. I noticed a John Reed Hawk baptised in St Mellion in the index, so there's a very strong chance that he's the son of John Hawk and Ann Reed.

    Also search for burials - often children died when still very young and a later child was given the same name. (Hence five Samuels being baptised to Samuel and Phoebe in my tree.)

    If you still have a precise problem after searching, then come back with that.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #3
    Geoff1959
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    Hi Pam,
    Sorry for the poor image here is I hope a better one.
    Thank you for the suggestions i'll follow them up.
    You get to a point with research that you start to doubt what you have and I feel that sometimes it come down to best (educated) guess based upon experience. I'm still gaining that!!

  4. #4
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    Is William a direct ancestor? If so, you need to purchase all the relevant certificates for him.

    You also need to do some serious date checking. For instance, where and when does Catherine Carew Wilton fit into his life? (Nobody tell him! You have to work this one out for yourself, Geoff. Come back and tell me when you've done it.) Have you searched for William on any of the censuses, or are you searching just on Cornwall OPC?

    You need to search every site you possibly can, and ideally you should work backwards. Though I admit that's slightly difficult when you're finding siblings of direct ancestors who were born prior to civil registration. But use the same method as you used when working backwards, but initially in a slightly topsy-turvy manner to establish facts. e.g. John Bloggs baptised in Portmadoc in 1821. Look for him in the 1851 census first to see if you can find someone who matches him, then work backwards to find his marriage, and children. Then bring him and his family forward to the 1861, 1871, etc.

    https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
    Cornwall OPC
    For other counties https://www.freereg.org.uk/
    Census records on FMP, Ancestry, The Genealogist, and some but not all https://www.freecen.org.uk/ (check coverage before searching)

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  5. #5
    Geoff1959
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    Hi Pam,
    William Hawk would have been my Great Great Uncle and possibly not critical as not in my direct line. However a William Hawk is mentioned as a beneficiary to John Reed Hawk (my great grandfather) [Nat Probate calendar 1915]
    From your prod in the right direction I have found several things that I didn't know before.
    I have been unable to find William on the 1841 census but did find him with wife Ann on the 1851 census shown as living at Kernock Estate farmer of 107 acres employing 3 Labourers. Further digging shows him as a widower at his marriage to Ann Breen 24th Oct 1850 in Pillaton. William's 1st wife was Jane Herring they married 7th June 1836 in Quethiok she died 10th Feb 1840. BMD has a death Q1 1840 St. Germans Vol 9 P68. Find a grave has a burial for Jane, the inscription also says "Daughter of William and Joan ?? Herring". So in short lots of good stuff and proof that most of what I have is correct. Caroline Keast was I think never married to William, there is a newspaper report of a court case between them.Caroline was his housekeeper and there was an illigitimate child that resulted.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff1959 View Post
    Hi Pam.
    So in short lots of good stuff and proof that most of what I have is correct. Caroline Keast was I think never married to William, there is a newspaper report of a court case between them.Caroline was his housekeeper and there was an illigitimate child that resulted.
    Make that 'most of what you have until the 1851 census is correct' and you're getting warmer.

    As you've done well so far I'll tell where William is in 1841. St Stephens, age given as 30. Census ref HO107/135/12 folio 6 page 5.
    If you're looking on Ancestry he's been indexed as Hanko, which is probably why you couldn't find him, but see next paragraph. He's Hawke on FMP.
    When searching for people in the 1841 census you need to remember that ages of people over the age of 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5, so if someone had been born in 1822 and was 19, the census would actually give their age as 17. Sometimes actual ages were given, but in general work on the 5-year rule.

    Now keep going forward with William . . . .

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  7. #7
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    Hi Geoff,

    I'm now back. How are you getting on with William?

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  8. #8
    Geoff1959
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    Hi Pam,
    I'm still digging. Several news articles on William Hawk's son William (jnr) who was awarded a CBE for services to farming.
    I'll keep you posted though I have been a bit distracted by the dicovery of a new cousin courtesy of ancestry DNA. Looking for that link. Pretty sure its through the Pengelly line and there are loads of them!!

    Regards,
    Geoff
    Trying hard not to get sidetracked and concentrate on one thing.

  9. #9
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    Trying hard not to get sidetracked and concentrate on one thing.
    I so know that sidetrack temptation!
    Then of course, you forget what you've checked and what you haven't, so have to almost start again. Which does nothing except waste time. If you've got loads of Pengellys to check I think I'd concentrate on William and get him out of the way. Probably take you an hour max, whereas the Pengellys could take a week, minimum.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  10. #10
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    Not including the 1851 census, you've got seven more items to find for William.
    Though obviously more if you're going to find stuff about his children or any other family members.

    Four records are spelt Hawk; one is spelt Hauk; and two are spelt Hawke.
    (Think my tagline ought to be 'Pam is always so very helpful'. )

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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