Finding out more with limited information

[Karen C]

I am trying to trace my paternal grandfather but with very limited information. His name was George Harry Bailey. The only information I have is as follows:

1. Marriage Certificate from September 1946 showing his marriage to my grandmother so that gives me his age (22 years), where they married, his address, his profession and the name of his father and his profession.
2. I know from the marriage certificate his profession was noted as a/ leading stoker C/KK (or c/KX) 156401 Royal Navy. b/ Electrical Engineer.
3. two photos - one in Navy uniform and one of his wedding, but no information written on those. Although as they were married in Islington and the Wedding photo has the details of a photographer from Salford I though that a little unusual?
4. I have a baptism certificate of their son (my father)

I wondered if the number on his marriage certificate was his Navy number but I cannot find anything further on that linked to his name. As I don't have a date of birth or date of death I'm struggling to find anything. So any advice, hints or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Lesley Robertson]

Welcome to the British Genealogy Forum.

It might be easier to help with a little more info - places and Dad's name would be a good place to start. I had a look on FreeBMD, and there's quite a few candidates With George H, and more with just George, for a start.
Do you know when/where he died?

[Megan Roberts]

I think that without a date of birth or death you are going to struggle.

The number you refer to on the marriage certificate is almost certainly his service number, however without a date of birth or death the MoD which still holds the service records for all service personnel after 1921 will not release them to you.

Do you have your father's birth certificate as that might contain more clues?

You know his father's name and occupation, so a long shot to try could and find both of them together in the 1939 Register. Why not give us that information and see if any of us can find anything?

[Karen C]

Thank you for your replies.

Unfortunately I don't know when he died (only assume he has as he would be 95!)

The marriage certificate says they married in Islington Registry Office, and their address at the time was 30 Florence Street, Islington. They married on 12 Sept 1946. The certificate says George Harry Bailey Married Emily Shuttleworth (Otherwise Murden Formerly Stockton) as my grandmother had been married previously. George Harry Bailey was 22 and Emily was 29. George Harry Bailey had a father called George Bailey a Dairyman. Emily's father was written as James Stockton deceased and it says he was a captain in the HM Army however, I believe her father was Arthur James Stockton.

Their son is my father and his name is Peter John Harry Bailey born {date deleted}. His birth certificate says father George Harry Bailey but occupation says window cleaner, they were still living in Florence Street Islington when they registered his birth. There isn't really any other details on the birth certificate that help me.

Peter John Harry Bailey was baptised at St John the Evangelist Church, Duncan Terrace which is in Islington. Again Parents details are George Harry Bailey and Emily Doreen Bailey formerly Stockton. {Dates from 1940s deleted} Godparents names don't give any clues as they are names my dad has never heard of (Donald Stewart Littlejohn and Cecilia Winifred Beckenham)

Emily and George Harry Bailey moved to the Firary Estate in Peckham in the early 50s with my dad where they lived until George Harry Bailey left, {deleted} He never saw him again.

Emily then went on to live with/possibly marry a Charlie Green - they used to own/run the Temple Shelter outside the Embankment station - but I don't believe George Harry Bailey had anything to do with that. But Charlie Green and Emily Bailey are on the Dulwich and Peckham 1953 Electoral register so I'm guessing George Harry must have left before then?

It's very frustrating that without a date of death I cannot get anything from the MOD.

[wimsey]

FindMyPast (FMP) has two death records for a George Harry Bailey born 1923/4 - but neither are in London (one Derbyshire, the other Lincolnshire). It also has two George Henry Bailey born 1924 (one death in Yorkshire, the other Staffordshire).

But I'm guessing you have already seen these and rejected them. I suppose if he had nothing to do with the family after the 1950's (if I've understood that correctly) a death certificate isn't going to have any family name as informant - so how would you know you have the correct certificate ?

[Karen C]

I have seen a few references for George Harry Bailey when I have done searches mainly on Ancestry.com but like you say how will I know if they are him? The thing I find a little unusual, is that on the photograph I have of George and Emily's wedding (I only have one photo) and it is obviously professionally done as it is in a special mount with cover, on the cover it has the details of whom I presume is the photographer called Peggy Salter, 20 Westgate, Sleaford. So I wondered if that could be a small clue as to where he may have come from originally if not Islington - why would you have a photographer from Sleaford if you live in Islington? Emily Doreen was originally from / born in Oldham. But I do feel they must have been in London when they met as Emily had lived there with her parents and her previous husbands. I did find a George Harry Bailey who was buried in Sleaford - but could just be a coincidence?

[wimsey]

a George H Bailey was born 2nd quarter 1924 in Sleaford registration district, mother's maiden name Lloyd. One of the death records I mentioned is George Harry Bailey 1924-2008 (Sleaford)

if I stick with Lincolnshire a George Bailey married Mabel Lloyd, 1913, Stamford district

[Karen C]

I guess a start would be if I ordered that birth certificate to see if his father's name was George Bailey - if so, it would seem like too strong a coincidence for it not to be him? Then with a date of death I could try the MOD to see if that then links with the Navy number I have?

[wimsey]

I wonder if you have seen the photo on the "BillionGraves" website of the gravestone at Sleaford - not sure if it might indicate I was on the wrong track. It looks as if that George Harry Bailey married a Gertrude Spry in 1952 in Sleaford district.

sorry, I don't know anything about obtaining military records

[Karen C]

I have seen that grave (via link on Ancestry) and can see that it shows he was married. It is very possible that George Harry Bailey did leave and get remarried. I've also searched on ancestry and can see that the George on that grave stone married the wife on that grave stone in Q4 in 1952.... so I wonder if it would have been possible that he and my grandmother split and he had remarried by 1952? That may be quite tight timescales. My dad remembers the day he left, his mother and father had an almighty row and his father took him for a walk around the Friary Estate where they lived and said goodbye and left. My dad remembers that but doesn't know the year but he said he would of been about 5 or 6 so that would have been in about 1952. George and Emily would have been married since 1946 would I guess it is unlikely he could of got divorced and remarried by the end of 1952?

Divorce records is something I cannot find?