Kroesen Family

[Pam Downes]

Thanks Pam, I will look at the site you suggest.

I think it's unlikely that you'll find William on that site (thought never say never). All I meant was that was the one I thought you were referring to.

Pam

[coachcaptain]

All good Pam I understand. Yes that site just wants me to signup and I will be more carefuller with my typing fingers next time.

[phillip]

Jeff
If you look on the International Jewish Cemetery Project online England- London you will see all the Jewish Cemeteries in London and surrounding areas. The site includes information on when the cemetery opened or were closed. Each cemetery is listed with an associated link to the specific cemetery.You will note that Brady Street closed in 1858, Bancroft Road was closed 1907 and East Ham was opened in 1919. Each of these was either close to Whitechapel or in the case of East Ham about 10 miles from Camberwell.
The identification and listing of individual graves is ongoing although some burial grounds have listed all or many graves.

It is possible that William Osborne ( I noted that he signed his surname as Osborn in 1919 in one document and gave his address as 111-112 Whitechapel High Street which was the old Seven Stars public house- as per the Graham Osborne website which gives information about William.

It is possible that William who died in 1925 is buried in East Ham but you would need to check with the cemetery.
Phillip

[coachcaptain]

Hi Phillip. Thanks for your reply. Yes William has been documented as Osborne and Osborn. His father and grandfather were down as Osborn, he and his siblings, were the first to add the E. Don't know why? I also think that Jettje, who married out of the faith, would have been looked down upon/ostracised, by the family and other relatives. She was the only one in a family of 11 that married outside the faith. He is down as Jacob Wm Osborne in the Sandy's Row Synagogue wedding records, so I would have thought that is how he would have been registered as buried. He died young and broke, according to family folk law. He was fabulously wealthy, owning a vineyard in France, Parsonage Mill Farm, near Bishops Stortford and owning at least 3 pubs/wine houses in the city. He was the President of the Licensed Victualler's Association, they had a large house and my father and his siblings went to private school. They had a chauffeur and maid, but as he was "a soft touch" he gave away/badly invested his fortune and died penniless. So Jettje had to be supported by family and I believe both the Licensed Victualler's Association and the Jewish community. An interesting life and possibly a fortunate one? The Graham Osborne you refer to is my nephew who started the family tree, I am continuing on from his beginnings.

[phillip]

Jeff
William's Death Index Record is William Osborne June qtr 1925 Whitechapel 1c 169 age 44. I don't know what BMD certificates you hold on your lines but you may want to get those of William/Julia and the children so that you have a data base of documents.
Your William/Julia lines have some interesting parallels to my own. My great grandfather was a London publican and club owner during the 1890s-1900 and a turf accountant- he married into the Dutch Yzerman line. These are Dutch Jews.I have posted on him on the BG Forum. His daughter Constance my grandmother also married into London publicans non Jews and her brother in law Albert married also into the Dutch Jew line Goudeket. Albert did not convert to Judaism and was a a very successful publican.

The non Jewish marriages were not well received by my 2x great grandmother and the various Jewish lines.
My lines connect through marriages to Samuel Aaron Phillips died 1923 very wealthy London cigar merchant.

If you note any of the above surnames in connection with your Dutch lines please let me know- the connected lines also include Salaman, Worms and numerous others.

Phillip

[coachcaptain]

Hi Phillip. Thanks for your post. We do seem to have a lot of similarities in our lines, I will look up the names you have put forward to see if there is any connection. thanks again. ps. I haven't heard back from Aubrey Jacobus yet about my family line, I will try again in a couple of days, don't want to hassle him.