Hello folks,
I have a funny case - someone who appears to have changed his name and age. I'd appreciate any help or advice on this one:
On the 1881 census, William Loveday is age 35 so born 1846 (the previous censuses and birth certificate confirm 1846.)
On his 1882 marriage certificate, he is now aged 32 (born 1850). The details of the father are also slightly wrong.
In the 1891 census, William is still born 1850 and has added a couple of middle names - now William Leon Gambetta Loveday. Same for 1901 and 1911 censuses and death certificate.
It's the same person as he has the same job and address through all the records. So...why would William Loveday change his age on getting married? Why would he add middle names - Leon Gambetta was (according to wiki!) a French politician/prime minister. Did William change his name because he admired Leon Gambetta?
I would really appreciate any help or advice. Has anyone come across anything similar?
Thanks!
Results 1 to 10 of 12
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22-10-2018, 8:23 PM #1
- Join Date
- Oct 2018
- Location
- Swindon
- Posts
- 2
Unusual middle names and change of age
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22-10-2018, 9:01 PM #2
Welcome to the Brit-Gen forums
Just to be sure - this is your William Loveday in the 1911 census with family?
13 Beech Grove Wellsted St Hull Yorkshire
William Leon Gambetta Loveday 60 Railway Goods Guard born France
Jenny Loveday 54 Lincolnshire
Laura Gambetta Loveday 22 printers assistant Hull
Ernest Leon Gambetta Loveday 19 railway goods porter Hull
Our ancestors got up to all sorts of antics to keep us hopping - and hoping. You are lucky he only added middle names and kept his first and surnames.
It was then as it is now. You can call yourself by any name you wish as long as it isn't for criminal purposes.
As William says born in France maybe he adopted the leon Gambetta names as a nod to his birth country. Hmm although I see in the earlier censuses he says born Hackney/Bethnall Green
ChristinaSometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
William Burroughs
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22-10-2018, 9:12 PM #3As William says born in France maybe he adopted the leon Gambetta names as a nod to his birth country. Hmm although I see in the earlier censuses he says born Hackney/Bethnall Green
I see you have William's birth certificate. What are his parent's names on this and his father's names and occupation on the marriage certificate?
As for changing his age, maybe he just wanted to be closer to his wife's age. Vanity may be playing a part in his name change and age change decisions.
ChristinaSometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
William Burroughs
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23-10-2018, 12:30 AM #4On the 1881 census, William Loveday is age 35 so born 1846 (the previous censuses and birth certificate confirm 1846.)
1, Lucy's Place, Porter St, Hull, age 35, MARRIED, railway shunter, Bethnal Green
In the 1891 census, William is still born 1850 and has added a couple of middle names - now William Leon Gambetta Loveday.
On his 1882 marriage certificate, he is now aged 32 (born 1850). The details of the father are also slightly wrong.Alma
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23-10-2018, 12:53 AM #5On the 1881 census, William Loveday is age 35 so born 1846 (the previous censuses and birth certificate confirm 1846.)
Have you found William in 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses, if so can you give the details?
Sorry for all the questions but they are necessary for us to be fully informed and in a strong position to help youAlma
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23-10-2018, 3:47 AM #6
You may be aware of these, but in case not............ https://www.ww1hull.org.uk/index.php/...E/6574-loveday
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/c...427/loveday,-/Alma
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23-10-2018, 1:36 PM #7
- Join Date
- Oct 2018
- Location
- Swindon
- Posts
- 2
Ah thank you! I've realised I've been rushing and tried to summarise some of the details - it just struck me that William's year of birth seemed to have changed when he married - e.g. he's 35 in 1881 and 32 in 1882! As you pointed out, it doesn't work for the other censuses so probably not such a big deal!
I missed the Married bit in 1881! Yes he is a widower in 1882. I've just noticed (on BMD Register) a Mary Ann Loveday died in Hull in 1881 - this could be his wife but I'll need to look into it some more.
Here's my reasoning with William Loveday:
Birth - I have the baptism record not the birth certificate (my mistake.) Shows William Loveday baptised Feb 1845/46? Father James Thomas and Louisa. Living on Enoch Court which I believe is roughly around Tower Hamlets/Whitechapel. (Not on certificate but father was a surveyor, mother's maiden name Pemberton. I don't know their dates.) I presumed this was the Jan-Mar 1946 BMD in Lambeth but might be wrong.
1851 216 Piece: 1553 Folio: 320 Page Number: 47. Born 1845.
1861 - 14 Piece: 297 Folio: 160 Page Number: 3
Living with family in Tower Hamlets. Mariner in merchant navy. Born 1845.
1871 - No census return (or I can't find one?)
1881 - 4774 Folio: 48 Page Number: 9
Living in Hull. Railway Shunter. Born 1846.
1882 Marriage certificate - Married 28th Jan 1882 in Kingston Chapel Holderness Sculcoates. Bride is Jane Banes (age 26.) William is a widower, age 32 and a Railway Shunter. He's living at 6 Lucy Place Porter Street, Hull. Father Thomas Loveday (deceased) gentleman. William is living in the same street (and same job) as 1881 census so I presume it's the same person? His father's details are slightly different 1) name James Thomas (not just Thomas.) 2) 1861 census father is "surveyor in fire insurance office." 3) Deceased but didn't die until a few years later. Did William Loveday just lose touch with his father or have I gone wrong somewhere?
1891 - 3941 Folio: 31. Born 1848. Changed name to William Leon Gambetta Loveday. Same for 1901, 1911 censuses...
1901 4504 Folio: 146 Page Number: 35 Household schedule number: 215. Born 1850
1911 522 ED, institution, or vessel: 20 Piece: 28789 Born 1851
Died - 20 Feb 1915.
William Loveday didn't just add Leon Gambetta to his name, also gave Leon or Gambetta to his children as middle names. His 1911 census also says he's French...?
I presume he's been to France at some point. I'm not sure how to access French census and BMD records - you seem to need address or department details...? I've looked at Leon Gambetta's biography on wiki but not sure connection to William Loveday?
Help! Have I gone wrong somewhere?
Thanks,
Gemma
PS I started researching Ernest Loveday (William's son) from WWI records. Now moved on to Wiliam.
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23-10-2018, 8:23 PM #8I've just noticed (on BMD Register) a Mary Ann Loveday died in Hull in 1881 - this could be his wife but I'll need to look into it some more.
Loveday Mary Ann, age 40 Hull 9d 168
1881 census; Hull Boro Lunatic Asylum; RG11; Piece number 4771; Folio 118; Page 36
Mary Ann Loveday, age 40, married, born HullAlma
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23-10-2018, 9:08 PM #9I presumed this was the Jan-Mar 1946 BMD in Lambeth but might be wrong.
LOVEDAY, WILLIAM, MMN HIND
GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 04 Page 247
A corresponding marriage
Holy Trinity, Clapham, 20 Apr 1840
Thomas Loveday of full age, (no profession entered) bachelor, abode Clapham, father Thomas a farmer
Jane Hind of full age, spinster, Clapham, father Richard a farmer
Witnesses Jane Hopkins or Hosskins, Harriet Betts and another whose name I cannot decipher.
And other Loveday births from the GRO with MMN Hind
LOVEDAY, EMMA HIND
GRO Reference: 1848 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 04 Page 249
LOVEDAY, FREDERICK HIND Order
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 04 Page 215
LOVEDAY, JAMES HIND Order
GRO Reference: 1842 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 04 Page 200
I have found the above Thomas and Jane with children on census returns, I'm unsure whether they are your ancestors as Thomas was a porter on one census, and a plate polisher on others.
1851 indexed on Ancestry as LONDAN HO107; Piece: 1573; Folio: 46; Page: 35;
1861, RG 9; Piece: 356; Folio: 42; Page: 16
After 1861 William Loveday doesn't appear with his family and I haven't found him on other censuses, I've not checked for possible deaths, or immigration
1871, RG10; Piece: 669; Folio: 39; Page: 31, Frederick is now married to wife Lucy and on seperate censuses.
1881, RG11; Piece: 679; Folio: 43; Page: 11;
1891, RG12; Piece: 472; Folio: 78; Page: 12Alma
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23-10-2018, 10:01 PM #101882 Marriage certificate - Married 28th Jan 1882 in Kingston Chapel Holderness Sculcoates. Bride is Jane Banes (age 26.) William is a widower, age 32 and a Railway Shunter. He's living at 6 Lucy Place Porter Street, Hull. Father Thomas Loveday (deceased) gentleman. William is living in the same street (and same job) as 1881 census so I presume it's the same person? His father's details are slightly different 1) name James Thomas (not just Thomas.) 2) 1861 census father is "surveyor in fire insurance office." 3) Deceased but didn't die until a few years later. Did William Loveday just lose touch with his father or have I gone wrong somewhere?
ChristinaSometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
William Burroughs
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