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  1. #21
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillip View Post
    Take a close look at the 2 Free BMD Birth Records:
    Manaseh Isaac Goulston Stepney 2 464 June qtr 1842 and then Manassah Isaac Goulston June qtr 1843 St George in the East 2 107.

    I need to check Death Index but 2 possibilities one Manassah I take to be Henry probable 2nd 1843 record with 1st child dying and 2nd child named after 1st- I have this exact naming process in my own line but also noted the John Goulston with son Isaac born circa 1843. It looks as if John and Edward maybe related and using the name Manasah after their deceased father- part of the Ashkenazi naming tradition. I would get a GRO Birth Certificate to identify who is who.
    Phillip
    These are the two births I mentioned inn my earlier post. Manassah Isaac 1842 Stepney has the mother's maiden name Barnett. The one registered June 1/4 1843 has the mmn Emanuel and it is this one that is the son of John Goulston and Frances Emanuel who are in the 1851 census. So that leaves the 1842 Manassah Isaac as a possibility for Henry Morris
    See my post #12.
    Also post #9 has a Manassah with Edward and Frances age 9 in 1851 census. It is looking very likely that this is your Henry Morris Goulston.
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  2. #22

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    For clarity here is the Cemetery Scribes Burial record for John Goulston- ID 2016. John Goulston died 28 August 1860 Buried Lauriston Jewish Cemetery. Inscription John Goulston of Fenton Street Commercial Road who departed this life August 28 1860 aged 51 years

    Phillip

  3. #23

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    Here is some data on Henry Morris John Goulston who died in 1908- Probate Henry Morris John Goulston 25 Market Square Northampton died 28 Feb 1908 Probate to Annie Goulston widow Effects £627 19s 4d.
    A family tree has his children as- Edward Cracknell Goulston 1875-1946=Mabel Lilian Barber 1873-1934; Frances Louis Goulston 1877-1945=Fred Gillitt 1875-1926; Lilian Goulston 1880-1970 =Sidney Barber 1879-

    Phillip

  4. #24

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    Here is potential data on Henry Goulston which might confirm that he had given advice on horsemanship.
    See 1861 Census RG9 3386 83 11 (Copyright TNA)
    Henry Goulston u 20 Private 12 B Lancers b Mile End London Middx
    Leeds Cavalry Barracks Yorkshire

    Then 1871 Aldershot Barracks Hampshire RG10 818 9 11 (Copyright TNA)
    Henry Goulston u 30 Soldier 12th Regiment of Lancers b London Middx

    By 1881 he was married and a Tramway Manager b Mile End in Linthorpe with Annie and children- I will post further to confirm record..
    Nb You will need to see his Service Record which maybe available via another site. One of my own Jewish line joined the Army circa comparable time to Henry but changed his names and his service record identified when he joined up plus his service abroad and in UK plus pension.

    Phillip

  5. #25

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    More data which appears to relate to Henry Morris Goulston:
    UK Military Court Martials 27 July 1865 Newbridge Henry Goulston 12th Lancers Ref WO86/14
    UK Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioners Admissions and Discharges 1715-1925
    Henry Goulston 12th Regiment Lancers Private Discharge 22 Oct 1872

    Nb 12th Prince of Wales Lancers stationed in India 1857-1860; Ireland 1865-70; Second Anglo Afghan Wards in late 1870s- Henry was discharged in 1872 - I can't currently see any data which links him to any service with the Austrians but this maybe a private role post 1872.

    Phillip

  6. #26

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    A reminder- the information from Berger 1871-80 which I previously posted on shows two key points in relation to Edward Morris aka Eleazar Goulston - 1st he was still being referred to as Eleazer at the time of his daughter's marriage 2 Henry had a sister Sarah
    she is Sarah Goulston born March qtr 1852 St George in the East 1c 442 and confirmed as Edward aka Elezaer's daughter- Marriage 19.2.1873 at the Great Synagogue Sarah only daughter of the late ELEAZER GOULSTON JANE STREET COMMERCIAL ROAD E - she married ALFRED ISAAC MORRIS second son of LYON MORRIS.

    You have Henry marrying out of the Jewish faith and Sarah marrying another Jew- not unusual.

    What I still can't find are Edward/Elezear or Sarah 1861

    Phillip

  7. #27

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    Phillip. That information is so helpful. It has shocked me. He was in the lancers. Should I find the synagogue in that area to access Henry's father's birth certificate?

  8. #28

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    Simon
    Happy to help. Henry married out of the faith to Anne as you know. There won't be a GRO Birth Certificate for Edward aka Eleazer because he was born pre 1837. Early birth records for Jews other than possible circumcision records for males are very rare pre 1837 but I know Synagogue Scribes are adding to records and you can see circumcision records on their site.
    What I can confirm is that Eleazer aka Edward had at least 2 siblings see Synagogue Records Marriages- HSM 120 Rachel Goulston Marriage Aug 3 1825 father Menasseh ( the learned Mr) b Isaac -she married Moritz RAPHALL

    Marriage HSM 166 Rebecca Goulston ( same Hebrew father's name as Eleazer and Rachel. Sept 22 1830 -she married Adolphus NEWMAN

    Note the death and name of Menassah's wife - HAMURSYNO16 BURIAL-Elizabeth GOULSTON ( Beila) Buried 12 Sept 1842 Fento Street Commercial Road address Spouse M Goulston the late Mr Menaseh b Isaac

    You can see the Menessah and Isaac name being passed down and I am now pretty sure John Goulston is related to Edward/Eleazer.

    Will look further.
    Phillip

  9. #29

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    Simon
    This looks like the Circumcision record for Eleazer aka Edward:
    Synagogue Scribes website- BSMS 0521
    Eliezer Cirumcision 3 March 1814 Prescott Street father's Hebrew name Menasseh

    Also noted possible siblings of Edward aka Elizear - BMS 0418 Aaron 15 Jan 1812 Precott Street father's Hebrew name Menasseh
    BMS 0309 Isaac Jacob 23 Jan 1810 Precott St father's Hebrew name Menasseh

    Don't have proof but possible that the Goulston surname is taken from a place name probably London Street- this use of place names by Jews was common.

    Phillip

  10. #30

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    Simon
    Please take a close look at these records which appear to be for Menessah. You will note the 1809 Precott Street address which matches the address and Menessah first name in the Circumcision records. The spellings of surnames varied considerably so for example in my own lines I have Simon, Simons, Simmons, Simmonds all for the same individual and a German Jew. This is the adoption of tribal, patriarchal names.

    Menasseh Isaac GOLDSTON 35 Great Pearl Street Spitalfields 12.10.1802
    same name and surname Merchant 20 Primrose St 6.10.1805-1808
    same names 8 PRESCOTT Street 18.02.1809
    same names slop seller 10 Upper Shadwell 11.12.1817 with note that the surname spelling varied from GOLDSTON,GOLDSTONE; GOLDSTEIN

    see JewishGen UK Data base Jewish Surnames in London Registered Insurance Policies.

    I would suspect from this data that the Menessah Isaac Goldston of 8 Great Precott Street is one in the same as Menessah Isaac Goulston father of Eleazer aka Edward but further research needed.

    Phillip

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