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Thread: STOREY & NOBLE

  1. #1
    lillie
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    Default STOREY & NOBLE

    I have DNA evidence showing that my Storey family has ancestors who were Nobles. I have a brickwall with my great great grandfather Oliver Story, b abt 1798 in Drumclee, Cavan, Ireland, d 1863 in Belturbet, Cavan, Ireland. I believe that both of these families were border reivers in the western marches, and may have been moved to Ireland during the Ulster Plantation in the 1600's. I am trying to find any families where there were marriages, adoptions, or any relationships between Storeys and Nobles.
    The Noble family lived in Belfast, and County Down in Ireland. For anyone with interests in Y DNA, the shared haplogroup is R-BY36308, the connection is several hundred years old.
    I would welcome any clues,

    thank you, Suzanne
    Last edited by lillie; 27-08-2018 at 4:27 AM. Reason: forgot caps for the heading

  2. #2

    Default

    Suzanne, I have moved your post to the General Irish forum so that you can get answers to your questions. The Surname Interests group is only intended to register interests, and the posts automatically lock after a few hours, preventing others from answering.

    Can I suggest that you read some of the posts in our DNA forum HERE, especially TomBen's excellent summary at the top?

  3. #3
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    Default Storey noble

    My grandfather was Walter H Storey who married Ethel Noble however this was in Lincoln,England in 1907.

    I have not been able to research too far back on Ethel as there's is uncertainty about her father. Ethel Noble 1884,mother was Sarah Jane Noble.

    I too have DNA results,these do show Irish results whether there is a connection to your results is beyond me though! How would I check this?

    Pam.

  4. #4
    lillie
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    Hi Pam,
    There was a Stori listed in the Domesday Book at Bolingbroke in Lincolnshire, I think in about 1080? Stori was the Scandinavian spelling. I believe his land was given to one of William's invaders. The families I am looking for would have lived in the north western counties of England prior to Ireland. Because my brother shares YDNA with a Noble, there must have been a son who was fathered by a Noble, whose name was Storey, or was changed to Storey. This could mean a widow Noble married a Storey, a single Storey woman had a son to a Noble and gave the child her surname, or she had a extra marital relationship with a Noble. There are many Storey/Noble marriages in England and Ireland, but this event could be 500 years old. If you have a male Storey or Noble in your family who has had YDNA testing, we could look for a possible match. I have done my testing with Family Tree DNA, and Ancestry.
    skc46 {at} tpg.com.au
    Last edited by Lesley Robertson; 27-08-2018 at 10:40 AM. Reason: email address deactivated - spam prevention

  5. #5
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    Suzanne,

    Looking at the Muster Rolls (c 1630) there was one Story listed in Co. Cavan at that time - George on Sir F. Hammelton’s estate. He lived somewhere in the Barony of Tullyhunco. George Story had no arms, meaning he wasn’t very well off. Others who were better off would have had a sword, snaphance or pike etc.

    Sir Frances Hammelton is apparently descended from Sir Alexander Hamilton of Inerwick, whose family originated in Haddington, near Edinburgh, and who was granted much of Tullyhunco as part of the Plantation. In the mid 1600s it’s recorded that there were 31 “British” families and 52 men at arms on that estate.

    The main problem you face is that whilst there is some documentation on the identity of the major Scottish & English landholders who settled in Ireland at that time (often known as undertakers), such as the Hamilton family, there are no records of the individual small tenants, artisans, reivers etc who also made that journey. There are almost no church records for rural Ireland for the 1600s or much of the 1700s, leaving a significant gap which can rarely be bridged by paper records. Most Irish research comes to a standstill around 1800, as your appears to have done. It can be very hard to get back further though sometimes DNA helps.

    It’s well known that the Grahams petitioned to be removed to Ireland, and that numerous other border families went too as reiving was gradually suppressed, and they had no other means of income, but no individual details exist of who they all were. The Reivers have a website:

    https://www.borderreivers.co.uk/Borde...MES%20%202.htm
    ELWYN

  6. #6
    lillie
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    Hi Elwyn, thank you for your information. As you say, the problem is lack of records. I understand that the Storeys were not terribly important, and were relieved of property which was given to the Grahams. So far the DNA has only found the relationship with a Noble, and a more ancient connection with 2 French families. I think I may have to look for records in the area of the Western Marches,(mostly Cumberland), and Scotland. Since I have discovered that we are really Nobles, my curiosity level has increased! Can you suggest another forum which may be helpful?
    regards, Suzanne

  7. #7
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    Suzanne,

    Not sure what further advice to offer regarding records. The problem is that there aren’t any. A good read is Godfrey Watson’s book “The Border Reivers” (pub 1974).

    In that you will find that in the 1500s and early 1600s there were almost no church marriages or baptisms in the Border areas. The area was totally lawless. There were one or two priests around but most didn’t bother attending church, and some were too frightened to attend. Others were noted for their dissolute lifestyle, keeping concubines and never undertaking any official duties. So no functioning churches, and no records of any baptisms of marriages. According to Watson, if couples did marry it was by handfasting (in effect a civil ceremony) but again there were no records of any of those.

    The Marches were run by the Wardens under a system of military law but for much of the time they had no really effective jurisdiction and it was a wild west situation where family feuds, personal loyalty to your family and stealing cattle was about all that mattered.

    There’s a couple of mentions of Storys, (which tie in with your understanding a little). P114 “According to family tradition, the Grahams had been banished from Scotland, and originally settled along the banks of the Lyne, between Solport and its junction with the Esk. Subsequently the Storys, fleeing from the Warden’s wrath moved into Northumberland and the Grahams took their lands.”

    On p 151 there’s an account of 2 Storys whose brother in law had been murdered and who retaliated by murdering a Cessford shepherd. In turn they were killed by the Kers, somewhere in the Weetwood area.
    ELWYN

  8. #8
    lillie
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    Thank you Elwyn. It seems that the chances of finding a Noble/Story marriage or other event is almost impossible. Until I can find my ggrandfather's parents I am not going to get any further. Even the YDNA matches are not helpful, but I will soldier on! The Noble DNA match lives in Canada and he is not making any progress either. Unfortunately, I may not find anything more in my lifetime, but at least I have something to leave my family,
    regards, Suzanne

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