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  1. #11

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    Hi Eve
    If it is any help I have looked at the various Barnett/Lazarus and Moss/Lazarus births on the main GRO Index ( not Free BMD). This gives both the surname and mother's maiden name. In addition, I had seen the Horatio Lazarus Barnett notice but wasn't sure how much data you and Pat already had. You may already have the following information but just in case here are the various GRO Birth Index names starting with Barnet or Barnett where the mother's maiden name is Lazarus:
    Elisha Barnet M qtr 1839 Aylesbury 6 304
    Henry Barnet J qtr 1841 Whitechapel Union 2 532
    David Barnett D qtr 1842 City of London Union 2 153
    Montague Barnett J qtr 1844 City of London Union 2 157
    Eleazer Barnett J qtr 1848 City of London 2 147
    Abraham Barnett M qtr 1855 Whitechapel 1c 382
    Percy Arthur Barnett J qtr 1858 East Stonehouse 5b 283
    Anna Adeline Barnett J qtr 1843 Manchester 20 706
    Eve Barnett M qtr 1841 East London Union 2 186
    Hannah Barnett M qtr 1849 Whitechapel 2 686
    Leah Barnett D qtr 1850 Whitechapel 2 656
    Phoebe Barnett J qtr 1853 East London Union 1c 1
    Julia Barnett J qtr 1854 City of London 1c 102

    Joseph Slazenger Moss appears in the 1851 Anglo Jewry Data base -JewishGen ID 7396. Petra Laidlaw lists several of the children but not all of them.
    Here is the GRO Birth Index with mother's maiden name Lazarus:
    Nb If the first name plus dob of birth matches the same as Petra has listed then I have not put data.
    Marcus 1846
    Sarah 1848
    Frances Ann J qtr 1849
    Isaac 1855
    Albert 1857
    Ralph Slazenger Moss J qtr 1844 Warrington 20 909
    Sara Slazenger Moss S qtr 1847 Warrington 20 903
    Horatio Slazenger Moss D qtr 1858 Manchester 8d 212
    Frank Jacob Slazenger Moss M qtr 1860 Manchester 8d 345
    Elisha Moss S qtr 1868 West Derby and Toxteth Park 8b
    Frances Moss 1870 8b 392 West Derby and Toxteth
    Nb The last 2 names included only because of Moss/Lazarus combined
    Ada 1852
    Mindella 1864
    Isabel 1861 D qtr Manchester 8d 301
    Rachel 1866 Manchester D qtr 8d 320

    The following may have no relevance but just in case they are Moss distant relatives of my Jacobs lines.
    Nathaniel Moses Moss- his son Saul Moss c 1810-1892 married Esther Sewill 1821-1902
    Benjamin Moss married Hannah Jacobs
    Sarah Moss married Henry Poland
    These names appears on the Jacobstree Family website .
    Eve -you already know my Lazarus connected lines
    Phillip-Jewish,British Ancestry

    "The only true dead are those who have been forgotten"

  2. #12
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    Hi Pat. I saw that same information and also wondered if Oranto was meant to be Horatio. In fact, I'd made a note about a dot over the 't' which could mean an 'i' had been intended. The problem is that I couldn't find supporting evidence for Horatio Lazarus Barnett, but I'll look again.

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    Hi Phil. I went through GRO looking for BARNETT / LAZARUS births myself. Probably for the second or third time (I must make notes of what I've already searched!). Some of them I can identify but I still haven't found some of those danged kids of Henry Simon and Sarah. Here is what I know about the BANETT/LAZARUS births you listed:

    Elisha Barnet M qtr 1839 Aylesbury 6 304 - appears to be the son of Elisha and Ann Barnett, Christian
    Henry Barnet J qtr 1841 Whitechapel Union 2 532 - ?
    David Barnett D qtr 1842 City of London Union 2 153 - possibly a son of Abraham & Caroline Barnett. Abraham's father was named David.
    possibly: Death: BARNETT, DAVID [age] 1
    GRO Reference: 1844 M Quarter in OF THE CITY OF LONDON UNION Volume 02 Page 135
    David's birth would fit with Abraham and Caroline's marriage 07 Nov 1839

    Montague Barnett J qtr 1844 City of London Union 2 157 -
    son of Abraham and Caroline (don't have birth cert to confirm) (married Phoebe LEWIN, daur of Isaac Lewin and Rebecca nee LYONS: BARNETT 2-Mar-1866 M On 21st February at Willis's Rooms, by the Rev Dr Adler, assisted by Rev A Barnett, (father of the bridegroom) and Rev I Cohen, Montague Barnett of 9 Burton Crescent to Phoebi, eldest daughter of the late Isaac Lewin of 2 St Mary Axe. Jewish Chronicle

    Eleazer Barnett J qtr 1848 City of London 2 147
    not got birth cert, but most likely Abraham and Caroline's son Ernest and named for Caroline's deceased father Eleazer. He married Rose Leah DAVIS in 1875. Her parents were Michael DAVIS and Sarah JACOBS.
    [Ernest and Rose Leah were later divorced and Rose Leah subsequently married Lionel DRUIFF (optician and bro-in-law to Hezekiah LAZARUS /Henry LAURANCE (Optician) (son of Lyon and Matilda Lazarus of Exeter and Plymouth) and also bro-in law of Gladys Druiff LAZARUS, daur of Henry LAZARUS/LAURANCE above mentioned and Isabella nee DRUIFF. There were two Druiff lines who cross-married and were probably cousins, and they complicated things by cross-marrying with the LAZARUS family a few ways. Note that Gladys married her uncle. Isn't genealogy fun?]

    Abraham Barnett M qtr 1855 Whitechapel 1c 382 - ??

    Percy Arthur Barnett J qtr 1858 East Stonehouse 5b 283 - I think he's one of the children of Sarah Charlotte LAZARUS (daur of Henry Simon Lazarus) and John Zachariah Barnett. Is in Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Barnett . His birth in Plymouth is a bit of a mystery. There is a Probate record for him.

    Eve Barnett M qtr 1841 East London Union 2 186 - daur of Abraham and Caroline. Married 1860 William Harris of Germany, jeweller and diamond merchant. Their daur Nora married 1900 Henry ALEXANDER who was a grandson of Deborah LAZARUS of Exeter and Meyer SOLOMON, already mentioned in, I think, the thread on Gertrude LAZARUS (I've kinda lost the plot as I'm working on a couple of posts simultaneously.)

    Hannah Barnett M qtr 1849 Whitechapel 2 686 - ??

    Leah Barnett D qtr 1850 Whitechapel 2 656 - ??

    Phoebe Barnett J qtr 1853 East London Union 1c 1 - ??
    (Possibly this death: BARNETT, PHOEBE [age] 1 GRO Reference: 1855 D Quarter in SAINT OLAVE'S SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 53, but I haven't checked this out closely. I don't know if either the place of birth or of death would fit with the birth places of Abraham and Caroline's children above.)

    Julia Barnett J qtr 1854 City of London 1c 102 - daur of Abraham and Caroline. (no BC, so based on census records) Married Joseph MANDELSTAM 1878 - see Doreen Berger's book The Jewish Victorian

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    Quote Originally Posted by phillip View Post
    Hi Eve
    If it is any help I have looked at the various Barnett/Lazarus and Moss/Lazarus births on the main GRO Index ( not Free BMD). s
    Hi Phil. Thanks for the list of Slazenger MOSS /LAZARUS births. I have to go through it carefully. I have 11 Slazenger Moss children and the spouses of all but a couple of those, one having died young. Mindella appears to have been one of Henry Simon LAZARUS's wife Mary Amelia's names.

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    Default Horatio Lazarus BARNETT

    Quote Originally Posted by Eve Mary View Post
    Hi Pat. I saw that same information and also wondered if Oranto was meant to be Horatio. In fact, I'd made a note about a dot over the 't' which could mean an 'i' had been intended. The problem is that I couldn't find supporting evidence for Horatio Lazarus Barnett, but I'll look again.
    I've now found tidbit about Horatio Lazarus Barnett on https://trove.nla.gov.au/
    The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) Sat 31 Mar 1855 page 1

    < HORATIO LAZARUS BARNETT, from Man
    chester.-Should this meet the eye of the above, be is
    earnestly requested to communicate with his anxious and grieving
    mother, or by addressing Mr. J. JACOBS, care of Messrs D. and
    P. FALK, Melbourne, he will receive letters from home. Any
    one knowing the whereabouts of the said Horatio L. Barnett
    would confer an inestimable favour by dropping a line to the
    above address, as his friends are in an awful state of suspense respecting his fate.>

    I don't know who Mr. J. JACOBS is (yet). HLB would have been in his mid teens at this point. He have gone to Australia with his brother Leopold Lazarus BARNETT who was in New Zealand by 1864 and who married in Melbourne in 1880.

    So yes, Oranto/Osanto does appear to have been a mess up of Horatio.

    Eve

  6. #16

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    Hi Eve,
    Thank you for the information from Sydney. I have found a newspaper article in the Tower Hamlets Independent and East End Local Advertiser dated 5th Nov 1870 that confirms that Horatio Lazarus Barnett of Manila was the son of J b Barnett of Grafton St, Mile End and Grandson of "the late respected Dr Lazarus, of Prestwich."

    And another article from the Oxfordshire Telegraph of 26 Aug 1868 reporting the death in London of Henry Simon LAZARUS aged 85 years and confirming that his daughter was Mrs S C Barnett of 11 Landseer Road, Bow. It also said that he was a commercial traveller who normally resided in Prestwich.

    There is also an article in the Staffordshire Advertiser of 2nd July 1831 saying that he was living in Whitchurch which was where his daughter Sarah was married in 1838
    Pat

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    Hi Pat,
    Thanks for the additional information. I still haven't found birth records for the earlier children. I copied the following item from the Derbyshire Courier, Aug 25, 1838:
    JEWISH WEDDING, An Israelitish wedding lately took place at Whitchurch, Shropshire, in the precise form in the eastern world some 3000 years since. It thus described by an eye- witness:- On entering the room found Aaron Levy, priest of the Jews, from London, occupied in writing upon upon a parchment what we understood to be the marriage contract . The rabbi having concluded the contract, handed it to others present read, and then the happy bridegroom, who, after apparently well considering the contents which were written in the Hebrew language, signed the same, as did also two witnesses. This being duly executed the bridegroom was conducted from the room again, the lady bride being all this time invisible. A canopy was then erected, being supported by four persons of the Jewish faith and solemn strains of music announced the approach of the bridegroom. The reverend officiate having placed himself beneath the canopy, the bridegroom was introduced, supported on both sides by two male friends. Again, the sound music proclaimed the approach the bride, who was similarly supported, but by two ladies. We could not help here remarking the strictly striptural dress of the tall bride who was arrayed in pure white, elegantly though neatly selected, being covered with a veil, as in Genesis xxiv. 65. The music having ceased, the bride, still supported, thrice led round her future husband. This, believe, emanates from the marriage of Jacob and Leah, Jacob having his bride veiled, married instead Rachel. (Genesis xxix. 26.) For this reason the bridegroom has an opportunity of ascertaining from the gait or figure of his intended wife, as he has no opportunity of reading her countenance through the folds of her veil. Having thus circled round, she was placed on the right side of her future lord. The priest proceeded then to pronounce a blessing upon all present, holding at the time glass of wine in his hand, which, after the conclusion of prayer, was handed by a friend to the happy couple, in token of peace with all the world ; they having sipped the same, modestly returned it. The reverend and venerable rabbi then proceeded to read aloud the document before described, and then a second glass was filled, and prayer offered for the future grace of the new couple, and the second glass was tasted bv both the young persons, in token consent to each other. Then followed a solemn silence—a moment of suspense—the ring—“ emblem the happy slate" —who can suspend the agitation of the heart at such a moment? None. What more solemn—what more affecting—than the crisis which unites two fates in one—one soul in unison with another—one future care to both ? At this moment the solemn scene struck us with reverential awe—the placid look, the intense interest, depicted upon each individual countenance. The fair hand of the bride was then extended, as we thought, “rather willingly;" and the ring being handed to the rabbi, who first exhibited it to the bridegroom, who placed it upon the forefinger of the right hand his bride, and pronouncing the talismanic words, "Rahad Makadasite Led—Bethubath Zu Kadth Mosha Veh Yesrael"—Anglice, "Thus I thee wed according to the laws of Israel, as by Moses commanded.” The bridegroom leaving the ring the hand the bride, a glass was placed on the ground, and in a moment-—crash! -- the brittle vessel was shattered in thousand pieces by the right foot the bridegroom, a token of the uncertainty of life, and that all our joys may be shattered in moment. The sudden change from this solemnity to joy was electric. No sooner was the glass in the dust, than the music struck up in lively note. The place resounded with the words “ Mozel Touv" — “Joy! Joy !" Echo upon echo seemed to sound in our ears, congratulations were heartfelt; truly exhilarating was the scene. The veil the bride was in moment respectfully moved, and she stood before us with eyes streaming, thankful yet happy; and none more than the happy husband. A look -- a prayer—they were married—all was over. The lady is S. C. Lazarus, well known in this town; the gentleman (Mr. Z. Barnett) is from London. The rabbi was express from town for the occasion, Salopian Journal.

  8. #18

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    I have just received the GRO certificate for Adeline Anna Barnett. She was born on 19 April 1843 at the Jews Cemetery Prestwich. Her father was Zachariah John Barnett, a Traveller and her mother Sarah Charlotte Barnett, formerly Lazarus. So she is almost certainly the Hannah Barnett recorded in the 1851 Census living with her Grandparents and brothers at Prestwich.
    Unfortunately I can find no other likely records for her, either as Adeline Anna or as Hannah Barnett. If you would like a copy of the birth certificate I can send it
    Pat

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    Hello, Pat. Thanks for this information. I don't think I need a copy of the certificate, only the information. I'm not sure how we do email address exchanges here, anyway. I can use the GRO info and add yours.
    Eve

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eve Mary View Post
    Hello, Pat. Thanks for this information. I don't think I need a copy of the certificate, only the information. I'm not sure how we do email address exchanges here, anyway. I can use the GRO info and add yours.
    Eve
    Easiest way to contact people is click on their username, and in the list of options select the second one - 'send private message'. All you then have to do is enter a subject heading, type your message, and press 'submit'.
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